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Eng-o-neer
 
Tremelune's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
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Cool Rhinoplasty - fiberglass front to stock

My '84 M491 has a fiberglass hood, bumper, and fenders. I have a steel hood, bumper, valance, and right fender (anyone have a Guards Red left fender?). With my backdate on hold until I'm ready to paint the car (which may never happen), and my impending move across the country, I'm pulling off all the fiberglass stuff and putting it back to stock.

I've never pulled fenders or bumpers before, I never got to see the car in stock trim, and I have no real-world reference I can eyeball. If anyone knows of any threads that go into detail with regard to installing fenders and front body panels, I'd love to check them out. I have many questions.

In the process, I will be eliminating my center-mounted oil cooler in favor of a monster fan on the fender cooler—my cooling concerns are traffic, not high engine load. To avoid shipping giant parts, all of this stuff will be sold before I head West, if anyone outside of NYC is interested: front/rear '73 RSR bumpers, 3.8 rear wing and deck lid, front fenders, hood, oil cooler...

I pulled everything off to get a true account of what bits I have and what bits I don't. I'm currently in the process of staring at diagrams and compiling part numbers...I have the big stuff, it seems, but it looks like I've got a lot of fasteners to buy.





Resistance is futile.

Last edited by Tremelune; 07-08-2017 at 09:08 AM..
Old 07-08-2017, 09:00 AM
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Eng-o-neer
 
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Am I correct that this is a stock oil cooler? How does the upper bracket attach to the fender? It looks like it was glued/welded previously, but I see no obvious mount point on my fender.







Is this a Setrab cooler Elephant sells? I can't see any markings.


Last edited by Tremelune; 07-25-2017 at 12:12 PM..
Old 07-08-2017, 09:01 AM
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Eng-o-neer
 
Tremelune's Avatar
 
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I'm here squinting at diagrams, and a few things aren't adding up in my head.

How does the smile attach?

What is that #2 "front bumper support"?? Is this part of an exploded view for what is usually just taken as a whole front bumper? It doesn't seem to exist, except for this auction I found: EXCELLENT ORIGINAL GENUINE PORSCHE 911 FRONT BUMPER OIL COOLER MOUNTING BRACKET | eBay

Are the shocks (13, 14) different? Only 14 has a part number...





I have a Carrera valance, but I understand the 930 valance is slightly different (at the mount point, it looks like). I've been told it can be "made to work", which I will give a whirl if it's just a simple cut and drill to make room for the spoiler and bolts. Has anyone done this? The 930 valence is a rarer animal, and I haven't been able to source one.

Last edited by Tremelune; 07-25-2017 at 12:12 PM..
Old 07-08-2017, 09:05 AM
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It's been 15 years since I pulled the front end off my '76, so my recollection for details might be a bit sketchy.

The fenders mount (as you've already discovered) with bolts along the door, underneath behind the front wheels, and along the hood. What seems to be missing in your photos, I had a sturdy bracket mounted to the chassis under each headlight bucket that supported the fender under each headlight.

For the bumper, your diagram covers it. The heavy steel bumper was mounted to the bumper shocks exactly as the diagram shows (looks like you have the C bracket #19 on your car). It's very straightforward. Everything else was almost decorative (at least structurally). The "smile", I believe, was clipped to the bumper... I had a stock valance, so no experience with the 930 valance.

Have you decided what to do about the 3.6 and smog here in Cali? Cali is the worst, and I'd love to do the 3.6 myself, but the smog hurdle is giving me pause... In any event, I hope you enjoy your stint in Cali!
Old 07-08-2017, 10:35 AM
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Pretty good memory, I'd say...I'm missing those brackets, but I have the part numbers for them (27 here):



With regard to smog, I just plan to wing it and hope for the best.

Does anyone know what the story is with #4? There are several seals, but they share part numbers and do not specify a quantity...#5 appears to be "piping" for both sides...Dunno what that means. The Bentley manual I have says to replace seals any time the fender comes off.

Any tips for getting the fenders lined up properly? Should they be sealed with something?

Last edited by Tremelune; 07-08-2017 at 10:56 AM..
Old 07-08-2017, 10:53 AM
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Ah, yes! #27

Not sure when you're moving, but there's a bill going through California legislature as we speak that if passed, as I read it, would allow vehicles registered as a "collector", 35 years or older to have to pass only the emissions portion of the biennial smog test. Not sure what implications that will have on out-of-state vehicles registered in Cali for the first time though...

I'm crossing my fingers for that one. 15 years ago I bought a '76 expecting to be exempt within a few years, and a year later California repealed the 30-year rolling smog exemption... so who knows what might happen.
Old 07-08-2017, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tremelune View Post
#5 appears to be "piping" for both sides...Dunno what that means. The Bentley manual I have says to replace seals any time the fender comes off.
Yep, piping/padding between the upper edge of the fender and the windshield wiper cowl piece.
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Old 07-08-2017, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canada Kev View Post
Yep, piping/padding between the upper edge of the fender and the windshield wiper cowl piece.
Porsche lists two parts for #5 in that diagram:

(X) wing seal 6,5 MM - 911 799 503 07
(2) piping 4,3 MM - 901 503 394 22

Pelican has both, but there doesn't seem to be indication of when you would use one or the other...

#4 in that diagram (000 043 129 00) is just a roll of tape on Pelican...I guess you cut it to length or it's already the correct length...?
Old 07-08-2017, 04:45 PM
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Smile bolts to front lip of wings, not bumper (bumper has to move remember)

There should be a mounting point on the headlamp bowl for the top of the oil cooler
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Old 07-08-2017, 10:37 PM
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I believe part number 2 bracket is for additional protection of oil cooler. I also went from fiberglass to stock bumper, I did not use part 2
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Old 07-09-2017, 03:00 AM
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I just did a nose job on mine. The smile had bolts coming from the frunk.
Old 07-09-2017, 05:38 AM
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Aha, this is helpful.

It seems the upper-mount bracket I have was cut out from the headlight bucket a bit. I'll need to bolt that in.

I'll skip the #2 bracket unless a pressing need presents itself...

I can't find a diagram for the smile-to-fender attachments anywhere...Seems like speed nuts and tap screws, but I can't find a size anywhere. It may not matter much, but I'd like to avoid just screwing/bolting them in willy-nilly. Found this article, though, so maybe I'll see if they mention the fasteners:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/364902-911-smile-replacement-instructions.html#post3457010

Edit: Nope. I guess I'll just wing it, but if anyone happens to know what fasteners are used here...

Last edited by Tremelune; 07-09-2017 at 06:14 AM..
Old 07-09-2017, 06:04 AM
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Great writeup on the bumper/smile removal, plus a shot of the mysterious #2 bracket in situ!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/545165-88-911-bumper-removal.html

More on the mysterious #5 seals:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/579010-4-3mm-6-5mm-seal-fender-cowl.html

Last edited by Tremelune; 07-09-2017 at 06:32 AM..
Old 07-09-2017, 06:25 AM
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I took the #2 bracket off the car when I put my stock bumper back. It makes a lot of nuts/bolts harder to get to.

I've got the bracket in the garage, If you'd like I could take some pictures for you.
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Last edited by DeRRis; 07-09-2017 at 09:38 AM..
Old 07-09-2017, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tremelune View Post
Am I correct that this is a stock oil cooler? How does the upper bracket attach to the fender?
The upper bracket came off. It should be welded to the rear of the headlight housing
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Old 07-09-2017, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tremelune View Post
[b]How does the smile attach?
The black rubber smile itself ist fixed as follows:
when held in position unter the headlights, it is screw fixed a) from the inside of the trunk with 6 screws and b) with 2 screws to each side from underneath.

When holding the smile in hand you will see the fixpoints and it will be selfexplanatory.

The smile must be fixed BEFORE mounting the bumper.
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Old 07-09-2017, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tremelune View Post
Are the shocks (13, 14) different? Only 14 has a part number...


To mount the bumper you need either #13 (stiff/lighter) or 14 (a shockabsorber).

and this is where it goes into:


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Old 07-09-2017, 12:51 PM
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Okay, I've ordered a thousand bucks worth of parts from Elephant, Pelican, and Bolt Depot. I checked my lists thrice, so hopefully I got everything. I drummed up a spreadsheet in the process of compiling parts, so I might as well share it. It's worth noting that this list is not comprehensive of all parts, and is very specific to my car and what I'm doing with it...That said, maybe it's in some way helpful to someone:

Rhinoplasty Parts List

Last edited by Tremelune; 11-02-2017 at 09:46 AM..
Old 07-09-2017, 01:34 PM
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The "piping" seal that I pulled off my car from the old fenders was 4.3mm (thick), but the seal on the back of my car and mirrors looked like 6.5mm, so I went with that. It just looked a bit better, I guess. We'll see.

The 25x2mm "sealing strap" (000 043 129 00) cited is a roll of Terostat Ribbon. My understanding is that it's just butyl rope or some such, to keep moisture out of the fender. It was $44, so I punted.

This thread has been very helpful. For the most part, my two remaining questions are:

1) How can I get the Carrera valance to work with the 930 spoiler?

2) What should I seal the fenders with? Caulk? Butyl rope? Should I spring for the Terostat Ribbon?
Old 07-09-2017, 01:46 PM
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Trem... Like the wide body you had going. Return to stock is interesting adventure. Carstuff aside, am curious where you're headed geowise? (Only curious... am not a stalker!)
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Old 07-09-2017, 01:48 PM
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