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This is a great thread. For my 1985 3.2 I'm considering many of the things you have done.
Question, why the long tail pipes?
Old 07-13-2017, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gliding_serpent View Post
Yes. Depending on what you believe, it was about 260hp at the crank with ssi's and a dansk sport. The remainder was the same for the engine.

No baseline on the engine when it was a stock 3.2, but it had way less low end and mid range grunt (it also came with near no muffler and a chip).
I was thinking of a baseline on a stock engine just to see where the dyno machine was at.
Curious as we have similar builds.
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Old 07-13-2017, 01:13 PM
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excellent build. I was pretty much following every post of you on this car. I had a 3.2l too and was thinking about going 3.4l as well. I went 3.8l instead.
I have however a hard time to believe the 290hp at the crank. I am sure on the other hand that the car is a blast to drive.
Old 07-13-2017, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tributeventures View Post
This is a great thread. For my 1985 3.2 I'm considering many of the things you have done.
Question, why the long tail pipes?
Because race car? It was an ode to the pea shooter design (see dansk) of the early race cars. I plan to trim them for weight (and so purists will stop entering cardiac arrest at car events), but if people keep pestering me, I might lengthen them Bosozoku style! ;-)
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Old 07-13-2017, 01:27 PM
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Mind blowingly cool. Do you mind sharing a ballpark cost on this bad boy? I need a savings goal


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Old 07-13-2017, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 911 Rod View Post
I was thinking of a baseline on a stock engine just to see where the dyno machine was at.
Curious as we have similar builds.
Yeah, chip and muffler on the car when i got it. My belief is that dynojets are generous across the board. But, there is not much to manipluate, vs say a mustang. If it helps, the guy had two and says they produce identical results. Take that for what it is, as with all dyno results.
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Old 07-13-2017, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by SoCalSK8r View Post
Mind blowingly cool. Do you mind sharing a ballpark cost on this bad boy? I need a savings goal


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The first rule 911 club is that you dont talk about 911 club.
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Old 07-13-2017, 01:44 PM
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Your car is just drop dead cool as *****. Nice job.
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Old 07-13-2017, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HorstP View Post
excellent build. I was pretty much following every post of you on this car. I had a 3.2l too and was thinking about going 3.4l as well. I went 3.8l instead.
I have however a hard time to believe the 290hp at the crank. I am sure on the other hand that the car is a blast to drive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 911 Rod View Post
I was thinking of a baseline on a stock engine just to see where the dyno machine was at.
Curious as we have similar builds.
Would you guys believe me if I said that when I originally had sal tune the chip, I actually had him reduce the afr's back (track car, not hard parking dyno queen) , losing 7 or so hp? I am quite confident we could knock on 300hp at the crank/fly if we wished.

Would you guys believe me if I said my custom muffler was dual tipped, but with no drone at any rpm, and with excellent sound suppression at lower rpm? And a great sound at high rpm?

But dynos are dynos. But at least there is less hand waving with a dynojet, when comparing dynojets.

Without a doubt at 2404lbs on a full tank of gas, this is a monster. P.s. It is aligned for, and I run it on half a tank of gas, and I only weigh 135 lbs.
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Last edited by gliding_serpent; 07-13-2017 at 03:55 PM..
Old 07-13-2017, 03:39 PM
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I'm a a 3.2 believer. I have Sal's Chip/DME and MAF on my bucket list
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Old 07-13-2017, 05:14 PM
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Old 07-13-2017, 05:24 PM
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John, your torque curve shows torque flat right up to 6000RPMs and you still have 235WHP at 6500RPMs that's fantastic top end!
Then at the lower 3000RPM range you have large amounts of torque at around 190ftlb at the wheels!
This build is super and a great job on the details, it's not just about peak HP torque numbers it's about overall RPM coverage.
Now, get out and drive!

Super fun project, really enjoyed working with you.

Only thing that could have possibly given you a tad more would have been 10.3:1 compression with those 964 cams. But at 9.8:1 you have a very reliable DE machine!

I may have plans to do a very similar recipe but with twin plug and 11:3:1 compression. I have a motor that was over cam-ed and I plan to go back to the 964 cams and similar exhaust setup.
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Old 07-13-2017, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gliding_serpent View Post
The dogma has been that ssi's will limit top end power to maybe 260-270hp at the wheels, but rumors of unicorns exist. I undrestand those unicorns were heavily worked in race type engines with independant throttle bodies. Mine are all drop in parts, but i admit my exhaust was custom spec. No fancy headwork however. Just the cams. I have yet to see the numbers on a dynojet from such unicorns however.

What interested me was that i expected to see a beefier bottom end with the ssi's. What I found was that the proper sized headers improved my entire power band. Everything shifted up. I have seen some 3.4l dynojet nombers with big cams and exhaust, that lost on the bottom end, and did no better than the top end on my build.

I am not saying i have the one engine to rule them all, but maybe moderation and good intake/exhaust design is key to make the most of a series of small changes.
I have side-by-side data on a twin plug with 1 3/4" B&B then we swapped to SSIs with Dansk muffler. The result stunned us, and just as you said we saw the same result. The entire torque curve just shifted down by -12 ftlb across the entire RPM range! SSIs are simply to small for a 3.4L at sea level. The test results I saw first hand disprove the idea that SSIs improve low RPM range. The SSIs actually hurt everything from 2800-6700RPMs across the board. That's 2 data point on 2 3.4L engines I've helped with.
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Old 07-13-2017, 05:42 PM
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Yeah, maybe ssi's perform better at 2800rpm or less. But if you are doing performance driving tou should not be there after first gear... and in first gear my car is a beast anyway... it goes by in a blink. Haha.
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Last edited by gliding_serpent; 07-13-2017 at 06:41 PM..
Old 07-13-2017, 06:27 PM
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Might not want to shorten pipes as it could change hp/tq.
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Old 07-13-2017, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by 70sCars View Post
I'm a a 3.2 believer. I have Sal's Chip/DME and MAF on my bucket list
No brainer for me if i did it all again.

My other wisdom is that if your goal is this level of power, consider the guard gears, lsd, and a reinforced 915 also, especially if it will see the track. And a wevo shifter is also worth every penny. I have seen local 3.6 conversions spit out oem 2nd and 3rd gears frequently at our track. My car is making near the same torque, or more if it is a stock 3.6.

But as i noted prior... the tranny oil is just pristine when it comes to a lack of metal. That says a lot about the gearbox (and hopefully my shifting) especially given how I drive the car. Swepco and guard transmission, and you are gold.
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Old 07-13-2017, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by manbridge 74 View Post
Might not want to shorten pipes as it could change hp/tq.
Good point. Would be interesting to test.

Yeah, i was going for the look to be honest when I had the long pipes added. Actually, I did not know how long I wanted it (as i had yet to fit my getty bumpers), so i opted for longer, and I figured I would cut to suit. But the hot rod look grew on me... even if I get the "why are the muffler pipes long? That can't be legal. You will hit your shins!" "Bike rack, it is legal, and no I have not" is my usual reply.

but the longer pipe does theoretically keep air velocity up, which is good for midrange. And my muffler shows minimal signs (no signs) of heat "blueing" (vs the m&k and then dansk sport i used prior) so I know it is flowing really really well. The guy at the dyno remarked at how hot the exhaust air is. That tells you a lot. Plus it is actually decient at sound suppression (about as good as a dansk sport dual out, but a little better in the low rpm, and minus any drone, which was bad in the dansk around 3k rpm, and horrid inmost dual out mufflers). It is a rather cool muffler design. I told Sal one of a few design tricks that it has built in... but he is not supposed to tell.

I speced my headers to be tuned to the engine also, and it had a proper merge collector design. And heat. It is a pretty sweet exhaust setup, even if it was a headache to get built.

Maybe I will start a long pipes trend and more purists will go into cardiac arrest.
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Last edited by gliding_serpent; 07-13-2017 at 07:10 PM..
Old 07-13-2017, 06:49 PM
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I think I've seen old vintage pics of 911s with fairly long twin pipes. They must've been that way for a reason.
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Old 07-13-2017, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manbridge 74 View Post
I think I've seen old vintage pics of 911s with fairly long twin pipes. They must've been that way for a reason.
I went for similar to this, but with spacing closer to the 74 iroc spacing.

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Old 07-13-2017, 07:57 PM
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Very pretty car and nice build!
We've done similar builds with similar results. Exhaust systems must be spec built for the engine to optimally perform. Our MKM33 single inlet muffler was designed for stock 3.0-32L engines so will cork up a high flowing 3.4L engine. Long tailpipes do a better job scavenging and an even better job tearing up your shins which is why we use short tubes on street cars. Tuned headers with F1 merge collectors are what we use on everything and they don't look a whole lot different than yours from the outside. 1.5" has been long known to be too small for anything over 3.0L. Sal's systems are mandatory for making big power. We've seen 300HP with it. Very nice system.
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Old 07-14-2017, 04:48 AM
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