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^^^ Raff... thanks for posting ref-pic. Do you know what speed the air moves in that system?
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Old 08-21-2017, 04:42 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #61 (permalink)
Knee Pads are Overrated!
 
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Yo' Kink, I'm sure you realize this, and doubt it would make a difference in sound, considering that the material thickness is about the same, but you have CEET tubing and the orange variety is SCAT (heavier duty and can handle higher temps). The orange material is sturdier than the black, but not really any "thicker", so doubt it would cut down on noise . . .
Old 08-21-2017, 05:06 PM
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Intake stack mounting bracket – v.2

Quick release strap remains… cradle’s been added. Mounting problem with first version is also corrected here---this mounts to flat wall of tub… no contoured rubber fender needed.



Am low-temp welding two different welds very close to each other. This is second time around. Problem was proximity---when welds are very close to each other, 2nd heating fails 1st weld (when using same temp rod for each weld.) With 730dF and 350dF rods on hand, am doing things differently this time around.




Practice---aka pizzing away rods---is leading to more & more solid connections with this stuff. (Not solid enough to go without machine screws.) Visual appearance has miles to go. This is 730dF, no flux.




Second weld. 350 dF rod. Fluid flux has been laid down in seam with rod. Thinking = when heated to temp, rod will flow and drop nicely into seam. Nope. Rod did not flow at temp in this case. Needed to be “disturbed” to flow.




Vice gripping parts then adding heat = deformed cradle. Have heated cradle and reforming it.











Coastr, if following along, bits for your valve are ordered. Plan... self-returning bi-fold door using 180 degree torsion spring.

Raff, RonO… replacement for musical CEET hose… enroute. For amusement purposes, will say I spoke with Purosil in CA. They make beautiful-azz hose. Their marine wet exhaust 4” ID smooth bore… 3' = $400+ worth-of-beautiful. Saved you some money RonO… got similar product for hundreds less.
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Old 08-21-2017, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Discseven View Post
^^^ Raff... thanks for posting ref-pic. Do you know what speed the air moves in that system?
Sorry Karl, don't have the CFM on that unit, but it does move quite a bit of air, the pipe is about 10 feet from the deck, you can feel a pretty good rush of air. I'll try and go down to the hanger soon and pick the maintainers brains about the CEET tubing. But by then I suspect you'll pretty much be an expert on the subject.
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Old 08-21-2017, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo View Post
Yo' Kink, I'm sure you realize this, and doubt it would make a difference in sound, considering that the material thickness is about the same, but you have CEET tubing and the orange variety is SCAT (heavier duty and can handle higher temps). The orange material is sturdier than the black, but not really any "thicker", so doubt it would cut down on noise . . .
Think you suggested SCAT RonO... and I looked at both and decided to omit bulk for minor econo gain. That may have been bad decision. I posted testing mainly so you and Raff would know it was not an arbitrary decision to change flex duct. Think replacement does have more bulk than CEET and is smoother bore.
Old 08-21-2017, 07:26 PM
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I have zero to add other than serious respect! Great work!
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Old 08-21-2017, 09:15 PM
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I am following along as I can...don't have a photo hosting account at the moment so did it upload a diagram but sounds like you got it sorted.
Old 08-22-2017, 02:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RNajarian View Post
Sorry Karl, don't have the CFM on that unit, but it does move quite a bit of air, the pipe is about 10 feet from the deck, you can feel a pretty good rush of air. I'll try and go down to the hanger soon and pick the maintainers brains about the CEET tubing. But by then I suspect you'll pretty much be an expert on the subject.
No worries Raff... was curious and only interested if you knew volume off hand---no need to chase it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by daepp View Post
I have zero to add other than serious respect! Great work!
Thanks to ya Dave


Quote:
Originally Posted by Coastr View Post
I am following along as I can...don't have a photo hosting account at the moment so did it upload a diagram but sounds like you got it sorted.
Soon as you suggested pop valve relative to bag... knew it had to be. Water would fall away within seconds. Bag would stay. Is excellent thinking Coastr. Thanks for input! Yes on sorted. Bits are ordered.
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Old 08-22-2017, 07:06 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #68 (permalink)
Knee Pads are Overrated!
 
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Bump for another Godzilla-fan, noise canceling offering (you know how I have a thing for loud mouthed, freaky wimminz)!


Last edited by Rawknees'Turbo; 08-23-2017 at 09:34 PM..
Old 08-23-2017, 09:17 PM
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^^^ Nice one RonO. Am dialing physio-state in... finishing 4th cup of expresso for this tune... am now ready to broken-glass-Tango like you & Bobster. But am solo here (unless counting nearby enthusiastic cat.)
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Old 08-28-2017, 10:04 AM
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Coastr’s air-valve



Bi-fold door panel and pivot parts. Idea is to weld tube to panel then interlace-cut 2 panels together to form bi-fold door-valve. Planning on torsion springs to work doors. Gizmo will mount in secondary intake to be positioned just after Glen's Filter on intake stack. Material is 0.125" O.D. / 0.095" I.D. tube and 0.025" sheet aluminum.






Tube (with post inside) is clamped to floating “L.” Door panel is leaned against “L” and sitting on tube. Point of this relationship = eliminates having to clean up (remove) extra door material that would otherwise exist on other side of tube.




Loaded up on weld material here. Removed a lot by filing. Not the way to go here IMHO. Am continuing my low-temp weld schooling...




Applied 350 dF rod at different temps---goal is minimal weld material application without being too sloppy. Lower temp accomplished sloppy… rod flows but clumps. Higher temp is smoother version.




Flux creep. Is easy clean up with fine grit s.p.






Got 2 sizes of 180 degree torsion springs to play with. Never having worked with these before, am not 100% clear on how this is going to pan out. Already have a few challenges in hand. Gona set this aside to allow obstacles to simmer.


Replacement flex duct



Very smooth-bore rubber hose (left) and CEET (right).
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Old 08-28-2017, 10:55 AM
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Before ordering replacement hose from Race Part Solutions, I asked if hose would bend as if wrapped around a large car tire? "Yes... it will." Great! Not really. Perhaps the part where hose remains a hose when bent was inconsequential to fellow I was speaking with---I did tell him how it was going to be used. So, replacement is useless but will serve testing purposes.



Inside CEET.




Wall of rubber hose = very smooth.




Looking inside 3' of hose to turbine at other end.

Testing both hoses, each of equal length, attached to turbine with speed run at 80% = BOTH hoses produce same annoying frequency. Attach smooth-bore metal duct… no annoying frequency.


Air speed measure




Meter set to MPH.




Max velocity measured just aft of turbine = 49+ mph (at 80% turbine’s speed.) Next… attached CEET and measured speed at end of 3’ duct = 23.7 mph. Rubber hose… exact same speed (so slight undulations in CEET makes no air speed difference over 3’ length.) Inside of rubber hose has gummy feel. Gummy = friction IMHO. Attached smoot-bore metal duct… 26.5 mph end speed. With no annoying frequency to metal duct (as “soft-ducts” have)… metal is way to go.


CFM measure

EDIT: See "note" below concerning CFM indications here.

4” I.D. CEET and rubber duct given 23 mph air speed = 2,184 CFM (at end of 3’ duct.*)
Metal duct given 26.5 mph air speed = 2,442 CFM*
* Tested with straight ducts as opposed to bent---bent being the installed config as 3’ duct must make curved passage above rear wheel. Am sorting out where air volume stands at this stage to answer whether or not to continue build. Continue.

Turbine’s static exhaust = 4,589 CFM at 80% thrust/speed.

NOTE: CFM calculations here were based on "square foot." In posts #80-83, the calculations were challenged with my error reveled. Seeing a square foot as a "cube," I went down the wrong math-path. The correct calculation is based on a genuine "cubic foot." So, rather than an exciting 2,184 CFM as noted above, the CFM is actually 176.
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Last edited by Discseven; 09-01-2017 at 09:49 AM.. Reason: CFM notation
Old 08-28-2017, 11:24 AM
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Recall that airspeed passing over a hot surface impacts the heat transfer from/to that surface. Was astonished to see, as a student 'lo these many years ago, that a rocket engine relies on high airspeed in the nozzle to keep the boundary layer laminar which greatly reduces the heat transfer TO the material in the nozzle. You are striving for the n-th degree of airspeed, but it may be beneficial to keep it "reasonable" to keep the boundary layer turbulent at your condenser to maximize the heat transfer from the condenser to the air. That said, I have NO idea right now what airspeed is best or what is high enough to create laminar flow over the condenser. It is clear that you don't have a rocket nozzle, but 2000 CFM might strike the balance you seek between airspeed and noise from the duct.

Thoroughly enjoying keeping up with your work!!

Brian
Old 08-29-2017, 02:06 PM
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^^^ Nice thinking Brian. Gets me---perhaps others---out of AC and into new dimensions... laminar flow & thermal dynamics. Re turbulence in bucket, while I'm no aerodynamics guru by a long shot, am guessing deflector inside air bucket will stir things up, hopefully in directions intended. Agreed on seeking what's "reasonable." Point of defining turbine's acceptable noise limit was to see where probable high end was in terms of air flow. Lets face it if it was 200 CFM, new thinking would have been called for. When system gets installed in car, will run speed tests again to check noise levels---might be entirely different scenario with hardware in car.

Regarding air speed... have to consider that once air has departed 4" duct and enters bucket to pass through condenser, air speed as measured at end of duct is no more---that air's now spread across a 14" x 12" condenser surface area. Some quick math and I calculate air speed through the condenser being... not very exciting! (But still functional.) What matters, or perhaps better said, the focal point of this build is: the temperature of the air the condenser receives. In other words, is it possible to take cooler air from ahead of the rear wheel and pass it through a condenser behind the rear wheel? So far the answer looks appealing but, miles to go still.

Vid I found when thinking about turbines... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UazsDDFsS7Q Is 4-part series on Rolls Royce jet engine manufacturing. Also happened to study laminar flow relative to mini turbine in use here. Wondered if GE's silencing exhaust nozzle would scale down. It doesn't.
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Old 08-29-2017, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Discseven View Post

Vid I found when thinking about turbines... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UazsDDFsS7Q Is 4-part series on Rolls Royce jet engine manufacturing. Also happened to study laminar flow relative to mini turbine in use here. Wondered if GE's silencing exhaust nozzle would scale down. It doesn't.
Loving your work Karl!

That video is fantastic!
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Old 08-29-2017, 04:32 PM
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Air valve continued




First interlace template. Began cutting this into panels that have minimal weld material… narrow hinges failed.




2nd template. Will use panels with too much weld material.












Planned on testing valve with 2 springs first. Mandrel will fit 3rd spring if needed.




Springs naturally set up with their legs on intake side of doors. Could go this way but would need to add retainer that holds legs when doors swing back. Bending springs allows legs to position on back side of doors---no retainer needed. This bend measurably pre-loads spring. Going with single spring now.




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Old 08-29-2017, 06:06 PM
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Loving your work Karl!

That video is fantastic!
Thanks Shaun---hope all's well with you! . You know I admire your creative.
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Old 08-29-2017, 08:19 PM
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Air valve progress...




Intake filter mesh. Stainless.




Short section of this adapter will serve as collar to mount screen in.






Mesh has no welds... is held in position by interlace folds. Smaller mesh area gets, more loose its structure becomes. Am bonding edge with gel epoxy before making final trim-cuts. Bonded area will be hidden when stuffed into collar.






Dremel with carbide eat-through-anything-real-fast gizmo = much loved tool.




Screen's been gel epoxied to collar.




90 degree turn in air valve's intake prevents inlet from facing wheel.
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Old 08-30-2017, 12:45 PM
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Contouring 3” O.D. air valve intake to 4” O.D. intake stack.




Jig saw’ing cuts. Fine tooth blade. Much faster than hack saw. Can deliver wake-up-call kick back should attention wander.




4” O.D. section. This will replace thin metal duct section in stack. (Had just enough space to include this in stack without having to redo stack.) Jig blade not happy making 1.5” radius turn---is reason cut is opened up.




Testing doors to see if pivot post holes managed to find correct locations. Had planned to do valve insert part separate from 3" duct. Got lazy and am mounting valve into 3" duct. (Hoping this decision does not come back to bite me.)






730 dF weld.
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Last edited by Discseven; 08-30-2017 at 02:06 PM.. Reason: 750 is corrected to 730 dF
Old 08-30-2017, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Discseven View Post
4” I.D. CEET and rubber duct given 23 mph air speed = 2,184 CFM (at end of 3’ duct.*)
Metal duct given 26.5 mph air speed = 2,442 CFM*
* Tested with straight ducts as opposed to bent---bent being the installed config as 3’ duct must make curved passage above rear wheel. Am sorting out where air volume stands at this stage to answer whether or not to continue build. Continue.

Turbine’s static exhaust = 4,589 CFM at 80% thrust/speed.
Uncle Karl,

Anemometers... depending on the diameter of the device's (meter's) wheel (blade), speed will vary depending upon the location, angle and distance from the source.

Please show the formula for cfm based on 23 mph through 4" ID.
For some reason my 1 cup of coffee calculator keeps coming up with a lower number, like 176 cfm?
A 12" nominal 'spal' type fan typically moves about 850 cfm at 0 static; 13 vdc.

Otherwise, nice craftsmanship and creative work, love it!
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Last edited by kuehl; 08-31-2017 at 07:23 AM.. Reason: not enough coffee
Old 08-31-2017, 05:07 AM
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