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cool...
the jackstand laying on its side is always a worry!
Old 09-07-2017, 04:39 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #81 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedsilva View Post
cool...
the jackstand laying on its side is always a worry!
Hi Mike,

Car isn't jacked up, the motor is at partial drop and the jack stand was placed so if the jack holding the motor were to fail it would stop on the stand. I moved it out of the way to work on the O2.

Best,
Rutager
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Rutager West

1977 911S Targa Chocolate Brown
Old 09-07-2017, 04:45 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #82 (permalink)
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CIS airbox for EFI conversion........l

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwest View Post

Rutager,

Why are you using the whole CIS airbox with the AFM for your EFI conversion? I sent a few of these cutdown airboxes to people wanting to do the EFI conversion. See pictures below.




All you need is the section for the throttle body and intake runners. Half of the airbox that is not needed and could be trimmed or cut. Final test is to have the airbox vacuum tested.

Tony
Old 09-07-2017, 06:15 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #83 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwest View Post
There are some choices that need to be made and the big one is whether or not you want to strip all the CIS off for what they refer to as the "clean" look, or leave the air box and filter in place.

My first though was go with the clean look as it makes for easy accessibility in the engine compartment, of course once you get rid of all the extra CIS sensors and cold start valve from behind the air box, there isn't anything you need to access! The clean look requires several other parts to be purchased and to me, almost looks too bare.

Now, nothing looks quite as nice as ITB's but I don't use the car enough to drop that kind of money and besides it seems like once you start getting too complicated, the tuning can be a real headache- if I wanted to tinker endlessly, I would have left the CIS. No offense to those that have jumped in with both feet, the ITB's are awesome and I'm sure they get the last bit of power out of the engine.

My decision to keep the engine looking somewhat stock was based on being able to still use the standard air filter and having places to still connect the evaporative emissions stuff and the oil breather without having to re- engineer it all.

The Bitz is supposed to arrive Tuesday and I'm welcome to suggestions and advice and hope to also share my experience and any snags or tips I find. I'm not going to write a DIY type article as the Bitz has a 99 page manual already.

Rutager
He posted his reasons for going with the original look here Tony. Post 4 of the thread.
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Old 09-07-2017, 07:31 PM
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hiya, i went for the bitz kit for the same reasons as you: the CIS with all the NLA parts and the worn out 2nd hand parts is becoming very expensive and fiddly to maintain. it's a bottomless pit. The bitz is by far the easiest solution (easy install, easy tuning), and also the cheapest.

i also went for the stock look, and i went the extra mile with wideband AFR, accumulator delete, and even AAR delete. (make sure your AAR seals completely when hot, otherwise you'll have a permanent airleak, throwing off the tuning...try to blow through, or suck through, needs to be completely closed...many times they aren't even though they look closed).
I solved the cold start with a very simple old trick: put the hand throttle lever from older 911 in the car, and done. Love the simplicity, low cost, and no learning curve or added programming, etc...

as for results? after an hour on the dyno, my car is now properly quick and superfun to drive...where the CIS had not alot of low end grunt, this is now cured, from 2000 she goes!
Throttle response is the biggest benefit: you can tune in almost harsh 'FI' throttle response if you like. I like this. I just think about touch the pedal and the car reacts. Wonderful.
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Old 09-08-2017, 01:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wreckah View Post
hiya, i went for the bitz kit for the same reasons as you: the CIS with all the NLA parts and the worn out 2nd hand parts is becoming very expensive and fiddly to maintain. it's a bottomless pit. The bitz is by far the easiest solution (easy install, easy tuning), and also the cheapest.

i also went for the stock look, and i went the extra mile with wideband AFR, accumulator delete, and even AAR delete. (make sure your AAR seals completely when hot, otherwise you'll have a permanent airleak, throwing off the tuning...try to blow through, or suck through, needs to be completely closed...many times they aren't even though they look closed).
I solved the cold start with a very simple old trick: put the hand throttle lever from older 911 in the car, and done. Love the simplicity, low cost, and no learning curve or added programming, etc...

as for results? after an hour on the dyno, my car is now properly quick and superfun to drive...where the CIS had not alot of low end grunt, this is now cured, from 2000 she goes!
Throttle response is the biggest benefit: you can tune in almost harsh 'FI' throttle response if you like. I like this. I just think about touch the pedal and the car reacts. Wonderful.
I did power up the AAR and tried to blow through- nothing except me getting chipmunk cheeks!

I'm also installing the wideband LC-2. Seemed like the best route to go.

I'm going at this a bit slow because of other obligations, although I can usually do one small thing everyday or two. Really need to get it in soon as being in MN, we'll be running out of season.
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1977 911S Targa Chocolate Brown
Old 09-08-2017, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timmy2 View Post
He posted his reasons for going with the original look here Tony. Post 4 of the thread.
Tony, Wreckah and Dennis,

Thanks for chiming in on my thread, I know you all have a great deal of experience with getting fuel into the engine.

Yes, going with the somewhat stock looking install for many reasons including not being sure what the market will be demanding if I should ever sell (no plans to.) the airbox was brand new last spring and only has a few thousand miles on it, so cutting it up would just about kill me!

I'll box up the parts just in case, although I can't think original CIS would matter to anyone buying a car unless it was an low mileage numbers matching perfect specimen.

My car is numbers matching, but with 180,000 miles, repaint 20 years ago and a somewhat warn interior, it will not attract the collectors market anytime soon.

Rutager
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1977 911S Targa Chocolate Brown
Old 09-08-2017, 01:40 PM
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While you're in there...




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Rutager West

1977 911S Targa Chocolate Brown
Old 09-08-2017, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwest View Post
I'll box up the parts just in case, although I can't think original CIS would matter to anyone buying a car unless it was an low mileage numbers matching perfect specimen.
i've had those feelings as well...'shall i ever return back to CIS'...'what if i sell?'...keep the parts...but indeed, for a 'non special', well used car, it really doesn't matter. If it drives wonderful then you will be able to sell it for good money should you ever need to. I try to close my eyes for 'the market' and just enjoy wrenching and driving.
I personally will never go back to CIS (not in this lifetime anyway) and i have started selling some old parts to get some money back.
The car needs to earn your trust after such a modification, and after 3/4 year any many many miles without a single hiccup, i have a great 'reliability' feeling with this kit.

We were on holiday last month, 2 weeks away, come home, get in the Porsche, turn the key and instant nice running engine. Screw old, annoying, characterful unwilling beasts, i like my oldtimers reliable and willing.
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Old 09-08-2017, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wreckah View Post
i've had those feelings as well...'shall i ever return back to CIS'...'what if i sell?'...keep the parts...but indeed, for a 'non special', well used car, it really doesn't matter. If it drives wonderful then you will be able to sell it for good money should you ever need to. I try to close my eyes for 'the market' and just enjoy wrenching and driving.
I personally will never go back to CIS (not in this lifetime anyway) and i have started selling some old parts to get some money back.
The car needs to earn your trust after such a modification, and after 3/4 year any many many miles without a single hiccup, i have a great 'reliability' feeling with this kit.

We were on holiday last month, 2 weeks away, come home, get in the Porsche, turn the key and instant nice running engine. Screw old, annoying, characterful unwilling beasts, i like my oldtimers reliable and willing.
Well, you know you have to at least save the parts for a little bit- I think it's in the old car owners rule book!
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1977 911S Targa Chocolate Brown
Old 09-14-2017, 03:16 PM
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Okay, back at at after some frustration with hooking up the fuel lines. With the recommended fuel regulator NLA, you need to go off "book" to use a different one. After reading a couple threads, I decided on the Aeromotive one as it looked well built. Problem is that the Bitz kit is outfitted with 1/4" barbed fittings as was the NLA part. The Aero unit uses 6AN, so I ordered adaptors with a part number I got somewhere; that ended up being an 8mm barb which is way to big to fit into 1/4" line.

So, my adventure started with trying to figure out what the part was called that went into the fuel regulator and then getting it with a 7mm or 1/4" barb opposite end. I posted a thread asking about what it was called and a very knowledgeable guy steered me to something called -6ORB, which is the name of the thread type without the nipple and with an o-ring; I would have never figured it out on my own, it wasn't written on any of the literature that came with my parts even though they used that thread- aarrgh!

A google search with many dead ends finally leads to the fuel regulator manufacturers website and I order the adapters. Turns out Summit carries them too, but the searches I did didn't turn it up.

Anyways, parts came today and I got the regulator assembled, rigged up a custom bracket and mounted in car.

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1977 911S Targa Chocolate Brown
Old 09-14-2017, 03:28 PM
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For those of you that may end up in the same boat, here are the part numbers of the items- you'll need two of the barbed adaptors, one regulator and one pressure gauge.

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1977 911S Targa Chocolate Brown
Old 09-14-2017, 03:31 PM
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Got some time today to drill holes and start feeding wires; ones of those artificial barriers that once you overcome, the job speeds up. Little scary drill holes where the fuel lines run.

Was very careful and tried using a mirror and light as I went working up the drill sizes holding it back so the bit wouldn't keep going through.



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1977 911S Targa Chocolate Brown
Old 09-17-2017, 02:38 PM
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Hopefully my pictures are right side up now? I have been taking and posting pictures with the iPad because it is quick, but it seems that they look fine for me when viewing on said iPad, but on my computer they are sideways. I tried holding it in landscape to see if that helps.
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1977 911S Targa Chocolate Brown
Old 09-17-2017, 02:40 PM
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Couple questions for those who've been here already: I'm using MSD for my ignition and the instructions aren't real clear if you need to cut the blue wire for MSD as well as the stock ignition, does it need to be cut?

Second question: I'm using the LC-2 wideband controller and it says to install in the cabin not engine compartment, so I pulled the green wire out of the loom to the Megasquirt so I could hook it up to the LC-2 under the seat; the LC-2 has two wires that can be used one runs 0-5v, the other something like .1- 1.1v, which one do I use?

Thanks, getting closer now!
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1977 911S Targa Chocolate Brown
Old 09-17-2017, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwest View Post
Couple questions for those who've been here already: I'm using MSD for my ignition and the instructions aren't real clear if you need to cut the blue wire for MSD as well as the stock ignition, does it need to be cut?

Second question: I'm using the LC-2 wideband controller and it says to install in the cabin not engine compartment, so I pulled the green wire out of the loom to the Megasquirt so I could hook it up to the LC-2 under the seat; the LC-2 has two wires that can be used one runs 0-5v, the other something like .1- 1.1v, which one do I use?

Thanks, getting closer now!

Wideband is 0-5V

regards,
al
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Old 09-17-2017, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by al lkosmal View Post
Wideband is 0-5V

regards,
al
Thanks Al,

Big fan of all your builds!
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Rutager West

1977 911S Targa Chocolate Brown
Old 09-17-2017, 03:37 PM
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Rutager,
Thanks...much appreciated. My 1st EFI build was a Tbitz kit on my 77S....so we have something in common. Tony makes a great kit and is very knowledgeable....

regards,
al
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Old 09-17-2017, 03:45 PM
  Pelican Parts Technical Article Directory    Reply With Quote #98 (permalink)
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Are you adding the MSD now or were you previously using it?

The Bitz kit triggers off the coil through a zener diode and resistor to reduce the input voltage fro the CDI.

AFIK, the Bitz kit is not configured to control timing and ignition. If this is the case then I would modify the installation.

Your 77 2.7 should be using points. Send the points wire signal from the distributor to the CDI and MS ECU at the same time. This is your rpm signal trigger. Alternatively you can trigger off the blck/PUrple factory tach wire.

The Innovate motorsports output wire should be the brown one 0-5V. you can use the other one but you have to set the software to this signal. Currently you wil use the "LC1 default 0-5V) setting when you configure your WBO2 in Tuner Studio
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Old 09-17-2017, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpnovak View Post
Are you adding the MSD now or were you previously using it?

The Bitz kit triggers off the coil through a zener diode and resistor to reduce the input voltage fro the CDI.

AFIK, the Bitz kit is not configured to control timing and ignition. If this is the case then I would modify the installation.

Your 77 2.7 should be using points. Send the points wire signal from the distributor to the CDI and MS ECU at the same time. This is your rpm signal trigger. Alternatively you can trigger off the blck/PUrple factory tach wire.

The Innovate motorsports output wire should be the brown one 0-5V. you can use the other one but you have to set the software to this signal. Currently you wil use the "LC1 default 0-5V) setting when you configure your WBO2 in Tuner Studio
Hi Jamie,

I still have points and the MSD ignition. No current plans to mess with the ignition, just EFI right now.

I think the Bitz instructions have me using the tach wire.

Brown wire it is.

Thanks,
Rutager
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1977 911S Targa Chocolate Brown
Old 09-17-2017, 05:29 PM
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