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I roll back
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Chicago
Posts: 70
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Project Porsche
Hello everybody. First post here so I'd like to introduce myself. I am 18 in November and I love to work on cars. My first project (Project Buick) was repairing my dad's 1993 Buick Park Avenue N/A with him after it had an accident. That was fun and turned out well, except for spray painting the hood from a junk yard. That looks awful. The other vehicle is a 2004 Toyota 4Runner with the 4.7. I love that truck. Super reliable, powerful, and a great offroader. I am on about 5 forums for that. I know everything about LandCruisers and 4runners. Of course, my dad and I maintain that too.
Anyway this is why I'm here. My mom has a 1987 lagoon green Carrera Targa (3.2, G50) tucked away in a garage. It hasn't seen the light of day in 4 years. Back then, it started to run very rough. She took it to two different mechanics and they both said that it was a fuel injection problem. At that time, we were not financially able to make the necessary repairs. We are even less able now. However, at my high school, there is an elective called auto tune up where the former mechanic teaches kids simple stuff about cars. Obviously, I am way past the rest of the class except for one friend. We are allowed to bring in our own cars to work on for lab days. This gives me access to a knowledgeable mechanic, all of the tools in the world, and many lifts. I am not going to let this opportunity slip away. I am determined to get this car back in driving condition. Whether my parents will let me drive it is questionable. So this is my plan: 1. Go to the garage with a trailer. Will it start after 4 years? Battery will most likely be dead. Stabil was added. 2. Put car in another parking spot or favorably immediately into the school. 3. Perform leak down and compression tests to find out which cylinders are bad. 4. confirm that the fuel injectors are bad 5. order x amount of these. Real tight budget. 6. Take out the old ones and put the new ones in. Do i need to drop the engine to do this if i have a lift? I read this, but there are no pictures pertaining to the steps. 7. Burn out happily with a well running car Does all of this sound right? Critiques are welcome. P.S. I do not have any pics of the car right now. Last edited by 4boer; 09-09-2013 at 05:40 PM.. |
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Eva
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I would say, after sitting for 4 years, DO NOT try and start it! You've got a good amount of fuel tank, line, filter etc etc cleaning/replacing ahead of you.
#3 should be done #1 and the results will predicate the direction of your project. If the car needs serious head/engine work, a "real tight budget" will most likely not be able to get you where you desire. Injectors are easy to r/r, and buying recomditioned/good used ones will also help that budget ![]() Change ALL fluids. FRAM Oil Filters, are not allowed! There are only like 1001 other things I have not mentioned that you might also run into or will pop-up once running...ask me how I know :/ Search function and tech articles are great places to start here....LOTS of other knowledge in the brain trust as well. Until then, get your HS cheerleaders organized to do a car wash....helps with the budget ![]()
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'78 SC Targa ~Brynhild~ Insta: @911saucy "The car has been the cave wall on which Industrial Man has painted his longings and desires." -Eddie Alterman- |
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Registered
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 140
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This isn't what you want to hear but I think you may be biting off more than you can chew from a financial standpoint. Parts for these cars aren't cheap. I doubt you are going to get away with only spending a couple hundred bucks on fuel injectors to get the car back on the road.
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Vintage Owner
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911 Targa
You'll find that as with all projects, the easiest and cheapest first step is to educate yourself. There are excellent books on Bosch fuel injection systems (yours is a DME system), and if you have access to a lift at the school, changing out fluids, getting rid of all the old gas, etc. should be within your abilities.
I should caution you that, as others have said, the parts are very expensive, and an engine rebuild can easily go north of $10,000 without replacing everything. Checking the easy things like compression and leak down should give you a good starting point to see if this would be financially viable for you. Be sure to use the search function on this forum and you'll find a wealth of information. Some of it is actually true. ![]()
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84 Targa (sold) 70 914-6 (sold) 73 914-6 2.7 conversion (sold) 75 GMC Motorhome (sold) 2016 Cayenne |
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Registered
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dont try to start it with that old gas. its easy to drain from the bottom of the tank. check everywhere for mouse infestation. under and behind the dash are for chewed up wires
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82 SC , 72 914 |
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Registered
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You mention a fuel injection problem and immediately want to replace injectors?
It's a fuel injection "system". Poor running could be any one, or multiple components (including ignition). Start with a good manual (Bentley) and go through the trouble shoot and component test guides. You'll learn a lot and not waste money buying parts you don't need that didn't fix the problem. |
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I roll back
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Chicago
Posts: 70
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Double post
Last edited by 4boer; 09-10-2013 at 01:18 PM.. |
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I roll back
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Chicago
Posts: 70
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Aren't you guys a wonderful ray of sunshine. JK JK. Ok I won't start it. I understand that I may be going in way over my head, however the worst possible outcome is that I can't get it running well and it goes back into hibernation. Nothing to lose in my opinion. And yes I have been reading up in my free time. I can't wait to get started on this! Until then, back to the books...
@Jack Stands: isn't this a Motronic/Bosch system? @Josh D: That is just my semi-educated guess. The teacher/mechanic has yet to diagnose it yet. |
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AutoBahned
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you're 18 - people are trying to make sure you know what you might be getting yourself into
yes, Motronic Bosch EFI drain all the fuel out put in some new fuel; check the fuel hoses & fittings when it pressurizes to be safe, then try to start it if it starts, then search up the thread on critical safety issues and fix all those before driving it much if it does not start, begin diagnostic procedures your labor & smarts can substitute for quite a few $$ |
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Work in Progress
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Where are you located? Maybe some local pelicans can give you a hand.
Sounds like you need to start at draining the fuel and cleaning the system, then methodically diagnose what is wrong. Much cheaper to find and fix the problem than it is to replace parts until the problem is gone. Just as an example the rough running could be caused by a flywheel reference sensor that isn't gapped correctly rather than injectors being bad. I'm no expert on 911's but I started messing with them 13 years ago when I was 22. I had no prior mechanical experience so your one giant step ahead of me. Lot's of great books out there to read. See if you can get a Carrera Bentley Manual as mentioned above. It is a $90 dollar investment and will educate you greatly on 911's. Easily the best way to spend $90 on your car. Both of Wayne's (the hosts) books 101 projects for your 911 as well as Rebuilding and Modifying Porsche 911 engines are great reads as well.
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"The reason most people give up is because they look at how far they have to go, not how far they have come." -Bruce Anderson via FB -Marine Blue '87 930 |
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Rescuer of old cars
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I agree with the prior two posters. Do the right prep before trying to start it, and then begin methodical diagnosis. Yes, parts for Porsches can be on the spendy side, and these cars do have some oddities in how they are engineered and built. But they are still just mechanical devices. With research, tools, logic and patience you should be able to track down the issue(s).
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2018 718 Cayman 2.0 Priors - '72 911T coupe, '84 911 Carrera coupe, '84 944, '73 914 2.0 |
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I roll back
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Chicago
Posts: 70
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@RWebb I completely understand and appreciate it. I did not mean to come across as uhh (insert the adjective I'm looking for here). I did ask for it after all.
I'm in Chicago. Just bought that Bentley everyone is talking about. Last edited by 4boer; 09-09-2013 at 08:23 PM.. |
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AutoBahned
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have at it - be sure you have a friend standing by with a fire extinguisher when you first start it
the great thing about starting a restore when young is that you have a chance at finishing it... |
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Registered
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Mexico City
Posts: 295
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Just wanted to say Good luck with the project i started mine almost at your age 10yr ago and with less budget its a 550 spyder replica, i think its great that you want to save the car and specially that you want to learn about these great cars
youll be an expert in no time Best of luck
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"It's only temporary unless it works" 1974 911s turbo-look stock 2.7 engine "Dirty Martini" 1953 replica 550 spyder built from the ground up, EJ25 engine Speeduino ECU |
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Registered
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1) pull the plugs out
2) squirt some marvel mystery oil into each cylinder and let it sit overnight 3) Gently turn the motor over by hand with the plugs out 4) Drain all fluids, replace all filters/ replenish with new fluids- weight oil does not matter much as you will be replacing it again anyway 5) disconnect coil and dme relay (black rectangular relay under driver seat) 6) hook up new battery and turn the ignition / starter over so you spin the motor up to oil pressure (you will see this on the guage to the left of the speedo) 7) have a fire extinguisher and some friends handy to check out bottom of the front of the car, rear underside and engine compartment 8) plug in the dme relay 9) turn the engine over and check for fuel leaks 10) disconnect each injector at the fuel rails/ rig up a couple small leads to "tickle" them with 12 volts- just touching one lead briefly while the other is connected. This will slam the pintel valves open / closed and will most likely help remove the varnish build up 11) Install plugs and Hook up the coil 12) fire it up on the new gas . Now note that the exhaust system will most likely have a lot of oil in it and will smoke like h*ll as it warms up. So the tip here is to remove the cat converter and muffler so this oil can be washed out of the two and any residual oil in the heat exchangers burn off. Of course the marvel mystery oil will contribute to the mosquito fogging experience till it burns off too Some observations from experience When cars are parked for a long period of time on old oil, acids form in the block and attack the bearings. We have disassembled 2-5 year stored engines and seen this. You can't add material from the outside, so this means the engine needs a rebuild to get it right. But since you are on a budget, the above procedure is okay to see what your engine can run like. 3.2 motors have fuel lines that crack and rot over time. To save $, these lines can be re-hosed at a local hose supply house, but make sure you clock the fittings correctly and have them pressure test the assemblies before reinstalling them. If you cannot turn over the motor by hand after an overnite soak with the mmo, then be patient and try again after squirting more in and waiting. You can go counter clockwise a little, then turn clockwise several revolutions by hand
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1970 914-6 street"evil cockaroach" 1970 911 Targa "ST" Jade Green IROC Tribute (ready to race) |
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I roll back
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Chicago
Posts: 70
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Slight change in plan: I have to get it running in the garage because my teach can't accept a non-operable car. If there is an emergency, he needs to be able to move it. Do I have to drop the engine to do everything you guys said to? That won't happen this week, because I have to write a college app essay. That should give time for the Bentley to arrive. I have access to ALDATA btw. Also, do you think that bad sensors (O2, MAF, head temp) could have an effect on the poor running problem?
Last edited by 4boer; 09-12-2013 at 01:39 PM.. |
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I roll back
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Chicago
Posts: 70
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Hello again. I brought the car over yesterday and pumped the old gas out today. Here are some pics.
![]() ![]() This is the old gas. Don't worry, the red color is from the pump being used for transmission fluid previously. ![]() |
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Vintage Owner
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Targa
Get those college essays done - much more important than the car at your age!
There are lots of good ideas that have been mentioned, and these cars are not that difficult to work on in comparison to more modern, computerized cars. However, as the weather starts getting colder in Chicagoland, the desire to work on them seems to wane unless you have a nice, heated spot to work. If your school has a lift, you'll get a chance to see how everything is put together as well. Enjoy your project!
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84 Targa (sold) 70 914-6 (sold) 73 914-6 2.7 conversion (sold) 75 GMC Motorhome (sold) 2016 Cayenne |
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muck-raker
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Coastal PNW
Posts: 3,059
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4boer,
First of all, I want to wish you luck with both the 3.2, as well as your essays. Second of all, TRE Cup's advice is spot on. Follow it to the letter. Third: I'm curious about the credentials of the mechanics that stated that the issues were fuel injector-related. Were they Porsche specialists? Were they German specialists? Lots of us have been led down the incorrect path by wrenches that weren't particularly familiar with our particular brand of car. You have a Bentley. If the engine doesn't start after all the prepping, the first step would be to check for fuel and spark. As previously mentioned by other posters, the problem could be as simple as a sensor, a fuel pump or even the fuel distributor. Or, it could actually be the injectors after all, LOL. FYI: Many here have had the injectors rebuilt for a very reasonable price. Again....good luck. Keep us posted on your progress.
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STONE '88 Cabriolet, using EP Slick 20w50 partial synthetic Snake Oil...just as Rommel intended. ![]() Deny Everything; Admit Nothing; and Always Make Counter-accusations ![]() |
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I roll back
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Chicago
Posts: 70
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