Help with another VIN number

[chrisf]

I Have located what I am being told is a '76 carrera 3.0. It's a targa, and the VIN number is 9116301345.

What do you guys think?

Thanks,

~Chris

[Matt Monson]

Not a Carrera. It would be 91166.....

[chrisf]

Thanks Matt.

So a ‘76 911s ?

Car has SC style rear flares. I am working on getting the engine number.

[Matt Monson]

Yep

[djpateman]

9116301345 is the VIN for a plain jane 1976 911 coupe; not even the 911S let alone a Carrera.
Original engine was a 2.7.
Sixth digit would be a 1 if it was a Targa.
So either the VIN is way off or the original car is nothing like described.
In all of the intervening years much may have been changed. Body work, and engine change is possible. You can't even go by the engine # since over 40 years the engine may have been rebuilt a couple of times and the guts in the case may not be close to the original.

[chrisf]

You have got to be kidding me!! Wow.

This car is most definitely now a targa.

[chrisf]

Oh hey, I thought all mid year base models where referred to as “s” models?

[djpateman]

Originally Posted by chrisf

Oh hey, I thought all mid year base models where referred to as “s” models?

Nope

[chrisf]

Wow. I am still learning!!

My ‘76 used to be a 911s. What would have been the difference between it and a “regular” 911?

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by chrisf

Wow. I am still learning!!

My ‘76 used to be a 911s. What would have been the difference between it and a “regular” 911?

Here's the confusion.

9116301345 is your VIN.

In pre-1974 cars, the "3" at the fifth position would indicate an "S" model, but that changed in the 1974-1977 models. For 1974-75, the "3" designated a ROW S model only, and a "2" designated a U.S. S model even though there were no S models for the U.S. in 1974.

In 1976-77, another change was made. The 3 now designated a stock, basic 911, and the 2 still designated a U.S. S model.

So, how does that translate into your engine? You haven't lost much not having a 76 S engine. Though they have different type numbers, the stock 911 engine and the S engine both are rated at 165 hp/5800 rpm.

There were hp differences in the 74-75 S engines vs stock engines, but not in 76-77.

Bottom line, engine-wise, you haven't lost anything. Model-wise, the VIN indicates a stock ROW coupe. If it is a Targa, there is a problem here that needs a solution.

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by chrisf

Oh hey, I thought all mid year base models where referred to as “s” models?

That refers to U.S. imports only. All U.S. designated 911s were S models, except in 1974 when there were no designated S models for the U.S. market--only Carreras.

[Steve@Rennsport]

Originally Posted by ossiblue

That refers to U.S. imports only. All U.S. designated 911s were S models, except in 1974 when there were no designated S models for the U.S. market--only Carreras.

In '74, Porsche imported three models to North America: 911 (150 BHP), 911S (175 BHP) & Carrera (175 BHP) cars. These can be delineated by their VIN's.

[IROC]

Originally Posted by chrisf

Wow. I am still learning!!

My ‘76 used to be a 911s. What would have been the difference between it and a “regular” 911?

My VIN is very similar to yours (911630XXXX). It's a RoW "911" coupe - not an "S" model and not a targa.

Not much difference, really. Mine had the 911/81 engine which was a 165 hp/175 ft-lbs engine (which I believe that except for screwy stuff like a different part number on the fuel distributor, etc., was the essentially the same as a US-spec engine of the same year). Mechanically it is almost identical to a US-spec 911S. Most of the differences were in the interior and "options". My interior is no-frills and looks a lot like a 912E of the same era, IIRC. No carpeted door pockets, etc. Mine (like many RoW cars, I suspect) has no sunroof and came with a 16 mm from anti-roll bar and NO rear bar. Stuff like that. Mine came with three options (per the factory documentation) - 5-speed transmission, radio and "black trim". That was it.

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by Steve@Rennsport

In '74, Porsche imported three models to North America: 911 (150 BHP), 911S (175 BHP) & Carrera (175 BHP) cars. These can be delineated by their VIN's.

I'll defer to your answer^^.

That's what I get for relying on only one source for this type of information as the one I used did not show any S models for '74 built for the U.S. market. Porsche 911 Modelle 1974-77

[Matt Monson]

Sorry, I was thinking 76 was the year there was only S and Carrera and Carrera is always designated by a 6 in digit 5. Paternie’s redbook is wrong and confuses many.

[emcon5]

https://members.rennlist.com/emcon5/vin74_77.jpg

[bahnburner]

That image was just what I needed. I'm looking at a coupe that the owner claims is a 1975, but the VIN is 9116200108 which means it is a 1976. But his Nevada state title has it as a 1975... And I live in California so I really need it be a 1975! The production date on this is 6/75, I didn't know they started production for 1976 that much in advance. But the chassis serial does show it was the #108 car off the line. The engine serial is 6460046 which seems right, but the owner gave a story about a how the engine was replaced by the factory not long after the car was purchase due to an accident the first owner had...

Does any know how the DMV in California determines the year of the car?

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by bahnburner

That image was just what I needed. I'm looking at a coupe that the owner claims is a 1975, but the VIN is 9116200108 which means it is a 1976. But his Nevada state title has it as a 1975... And I live in California so I really need it be a 1975! The production date on this is 6/75, I didn't know they started production for 1976 that much in advance. But the chassis serial does show it was the #108 car off the line. The engine serial is 6460046 which seems right, but the owner gave a story about a how the engine was replaced by the factory not long after the car was purchase due to an accident the first owner had...

Does any know how the DMV in California determines the year of the car?

If the existing title says ‘75 they won’t likely correct that unless the car gets flagged for a vin inspection and then perhaps during all of the hubbub it might get caught and corrected. Unlikely to get flagged if you have an existing title

[Matt Monson]

Titled as a 75 with a 75 pro-date will be seen as a 75 by the state. Had the same thing with my 67 912 titled as a 66.

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by nathanbs

If the existing title says ‘75 they won’t likely correct that unless the car gets flagged for a vin inspection and then perhaps during all of the hubbub it might get caught and corrected. Unlikely to get flagged if you have an existing title

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Titled as a 75 with a 75 pro-date will be seen as a 75 by the state. Had the same thing with my 67 912 titled as a 66.

Agree^^.

What puzzles me is the production date. As you state, that is unusually early for producing the next year's model. Couple of questions, if you don't mind:

1) Does the car have a throttle lever by the driver's seat?
2) Does the CIS have the AAR and AAV (assuming the induction had not been modified)?

Given the story from the seller, it's possible the engine is a 76 with the later features, but the throttle lever ended with the 75 model year and would likely be installed if the car was supposed to be a 75. If it's not there, I'd say it is a 76 model year produced very early.