911 EFI systems Stuck in the Dark Ages ?

[pmax]

It's Friday.... so why not.

Someone tell me they are working on this for our flat sixes.

No harness. ECU on the fuel rails. Self adapting etc etc

Video: A Closer Look at the MSD Atomic LS EFI System - OnAllCylinders
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2Fm5fMw01g

Oh yeah, CA legal too.

[jpnovak]

5 years old and I have never seen that. nice packaging. I guess I need to find a datasheet and learn more.

Though... its not that hard to connect wires.

[Speed metal]

FI tech makes even cooler stuff for LS engines... Where did I see a picture of a flat six with a 4bbl carb on top of it?

[pmax]

Relocating the ECU to where it's most connected ...to the injectors, sensors and coils... is brilliant in its simplicity. No 6ft mass of wires from the passenger compartment to the engine bay which is a good thing electrically.

Quite impressive the ECU fits within that fuel rail or throttle body and works reliably (I presume) so close to the engine heat. It would be interesting to see if the other ECU makers, Infinity, Megasquirt, Electromotive etc and the 911 folks, Clewett, Rasant, Bitz follow suit. MSD has shown it's doable with current technology.

[jmz]

friend has on his 66 shelby clone. he likes it and the car runs real good.

[pampadori]

That is very intriguing. Seems like an easy way to run an LS1 in whatever car you swap it into. I wonder if you give up much in terms of processing speed or options in exchange for the ease of install. Can it do traction control, flex fuel blending, etc?
To be fair, those features might not be important for most people. They may just want the easiest way to run EFI on their LS swapped Volvo 122 Amazon.

[Raceboy]

If you want to look whether something is technologically good/reliable etc one should take a look what top racing teams use.
Regarding ECU and its reliability, heat, vibration, moisture etc, you still do not see such solutions on race cars even though I am sure they would be willing to give up quite a bit to save from not using wiring harness both weight and reliability wise.

[pmax]

Did ECU speeds increase significantly in recent years which enabled self-tuning ?

Self-Tuning EFI Systems - Popular Hot Rodding - Hot Rod Network

To put the scope of self-learning EFI technology into perspective, we only need to look back at the severe limitations of factory fuel-injection systems from just a few years ago. Since these computers were too slow to react in real time at wide-open throttle, they simply ignored pertinent engine load and air/fuel ratio data from the engine sensors. Instead, they relied on a static, preprogrammed fuel map and could make only minor corrections to the overall air/fuel mixture. In contrast, modern self-learning EFI systems are so fast that they can instantaneously change the base fuel map at idle, part-throttle, and WOT. “Today’s ECU processors are substantially faster than those from just a few years ago. Their speed combined with their processing power enable them to make quick and precise closed-loop fueling changes for robust self-learning functionality,” Bill Tichenor of Holley explains.

[Tremelune]

That is pretty.

How reliable are the claims of the "self tuning" box?

Ain't likely to pass smog in CA due to the visual inspection aspect.

[pmax]

^^^ MSD's system is CARB approved .... if you have an 87 or older GM

I believe there's no technical question these EFI systems can be CA legal. Just a matter of dollars.

[Raceboy]

Autotune is nothing extraordinary, but note that it only applies to fuel table! No ECU can tune its main ignition table automatically.

[Jonny H]

Originally Posted by pmax

Did ECU speeds increase significantly in recent years which enabled self-tuning ?

Not really, but you can get more performance in a smaller chip for less money. In real time control system terms, the speed at which the engine parameters change is pretty slow.

I used to work in flight simulation. Even in the 1980's, the computers were calculating a complete full flight 747 model in less than 50ms. That's all the flight systems, the nav, the weather, the aero, the engines, the visual display and the motion system.

Calculating a fuel or igntion map is trivial by comparison.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by Jonny H

Not really, but you can get more performance in a smaller chip for less money. In real time control system terms, the speed at which the engine parameters change is pretty slow.

So the price point for these higher performance chips has dropped to the hobbyist level and the ECU assembly has gotten small enough where they can be integrated into the fuel rails.

[Pichu]

Meanwhile Porsche ITB's are $2K and EFI is $4500. Would love to get that entire lump off my engine, CIS and have it run perfect.

['76 911S 3.0]

I prefer the look of a well made Mil-Spec harness personally...that would look awful on a 911 engine. And another thing to note, that configuration is specific to one type of engine and one type only. No universal aspect there at all. Good for a crate engine but for those of us who want the added flexibility a standalone brings, a nice harness gets my vote. They claim to support additional features but I bet they are all one one connector off the back of those rails, limiting your ability to have a nice and clean install for things like flex fuel sensor, boost solenoid, etc.

Spend the time and money and do it right the first time, you will not find a need for gimmicks like that.