It's cold out there: summer performance tires a risk?

[OldSpool87]

I'm looking for feedback about how cold is too cold to drive to an event this weekend on summer performance tires (Hankook Ventus). I'm in the Northeast and have an '82 SC which I want to take to a local PCA event about an hour away. Problem is Saturday's high temp is forecasted to be 31 degrees which means colder morning temps.

I've been known to over think things and would appreciate feedback.

Thanks

[r_towle]

They are much more slippery when cold, so don't push it in the corners or it will feel like you are on ICE. Otherwise there should be no issue.

Rich

[Dmitry at Pelican Parts]

I don't really see an issue, just make sure that your tires PSI is up a bit. I had those same tires and found that during cold temp they would drop in pressure quite a bit; causing me to add air more often. Just be careful, but you should be fine.


-Dmitry

[Luccia at Pelican Parts]

I have driven in a white out blizzard before from Denver to Boulder with my Nitto NT05's on my car. Not by choice. It was a white knuckle experience, and definitely an interesting one nonetheless, but assuming you wont be stuck in a snow storm. I posted a pretty good article that highlights some other factors to consider below. I did got ample use out of my NT05's on the track after driving in the blizzard and think you should be fine, but it's always good to know the limits and "risks."

As ambient temperatures get colder, typically in the 40-45° Fahrenheit range, summer performance tires lose a noticeable percentage of traction as their tread compound rubber properties change from a pliable elastic to inflexible plastic... If ambient temperatures drop to near- or below-freezing, driving or rolling a vehicle equipped with summer performance tires risks the possibility of tread compound cracking.

From this article: https://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=273

[Starless]

We have a lot in common. I have a 1980 SC, Hankook Ventus, and live in Connecticut. I drive my car all year long. The tires when cold are a bit slippery until the warm up, then they're still a bit slippery, but nothing that would scare me from driving in the cold. Do as Dmitry says, check the pressure, i've seen them drop 5lbs easy when the temps drop.

[Otter74]

In those temps you are probably OK as long as you treat them like old, hard tires and drive conservatively.

I have driven in temps in the high 20s with a half-inch of snow in a car on summer tires, and I would not want to do it again. I slid through a red light at about 15mph because not even ABS could slow me down in time.

[shoooo32]

The age of a tire is almost as important as the compound when it comes to ambient temperature. At below freezing temps (on dry roads), 10 year old snow tires will provide less grip than a new set of nittos.

Now if your summer tires are old... just drive safe and don't go full Magnus; you'll be fine.

[OldSpool87]

Thanks everyone for the thoughts above and for affirming my "take it easy" approach.

[porsche930dude]

you wont die. I take my car out for excercise occasionally in the winter when its 15-20 degrees on almost bald summer tires. The sandy corners are what you need to tip toe through. when its dry and clear no worries

[OldSpool87]

Originally Posted by porsche930dude

you wont die.

I like these odds.

[McLaren-TAG]

Originally Posted by shoooo32

just drive safe and don't go full Magnus; you'll be fine.

This made me lol.

[larrym]

if you read the Luccia's & other reviews on tire rack, etc - summer tires are good to about 40 degrees - after that some brands tread may crack, and they certainly won't grip in any event

i decided to put AS3s on my infrequently but sometimes cold/frosty sierra driven car after experiencing rapid grip deterioration & poor (scary) cold/wet performance from my BFG g-force comp-ta's - they are decent AX tires to boot (so long as one is not intent on winning TTOD)

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Will, I've been running the a/c in my car most of the "winter" here - hasn't had a noticeable effect on tire grip!

[manbridge 74]

I don't think your overthinking anything if you take the time to look at what the tire makers suggestions are regarding temperatue ranges appropriate to their tire. I'm guessing they know more than a pack of forum hounds.

[boilersrule]

Let's say you wreck your car in temperatures lower than your tire recommendations. How will your insurance company respond to your recklessness?

[DaveMcKenz]

Originally Posted by boilersrule

Let's say you wreck your car in temperatures lower than your tire recommendations. How will your insurance company respond to your recklessness?

His tires don't say not to drive below xxx degrees. I wouldn't consider their use reckless in itself.
Good luck,
Dave

[hastighet]

I read an article about this some time ago and I believe it said that certain high performance, summer only tires can become so plastic that they will crack. Not crack in half and fall off of the wheel, but get noticeable craze lines that develop and basically ruin the tire. I think these were trofeo r's. I recall one morning with temps in the 30's that I turned around and went back home to switch cars. The RE-11a's that I have mounted didn't shake out the flat spot like usual and were really rough and jarring. They caution against driving below 40 degrees. Note taken.

[Tremelune]

Fascinating. It may not be as cut-and-dry as summer vs winter compound. A sticky set of summer tires will lose grip in cold temperatures, but they may still have more grip than a set of cheap all-season or winter tires in the absence of snow.

I drive my cars on summer tires near 0°F nearly every year and I drive below 40°F regularly. I've noticed a loss of grip, but not a drastic loss of grip like some are describing above...not the kind of loss you might feel from a sandy patch. I feel like more needs to be taken into consideration before we all run out and buy winter tires that will age-out for driving on roads without snow on them. It's worth noting them I'm never at the limits of adhesion unless something Very Unexpected occurs, though the occasional high-speed stretch on a bitterly cold day in New York is not unheard of.

It seems the likeliness of cracking would be determined by the glass transition temperature, which is also different from tire to tire. Michelin goes into some serious detail in this doc, but I've never seen a GTT spec on any tire I've ever purchased (though admittedly, I've never looked):

http://www.dimnp.unipi.it/guiggiani-m/Michelin_Tire_Grip.pdf

I've never heard of or experienced cracking of tires due to temperature, and I've been driving in the northeast for decades. Anyone have anecdotes?

[DanielDudley]

I ran a set of summer tires in the cold for a four hour drive, and it cracked the sidewalls, as the rubber wasn't flexible enough. Radial cracks on all the tires. They were about six months old.

I found out later that some brands are more prone to this, but I don't have any specifics. It wasn't all that cold either, just below freezing when I ruined mine.

[McLaren-TAG]

Originally Posted by Tremelune

Fascinating. It may not be as cut-and-dry as summer vs winter compound. A sticky set of summer tires will lose grip in cold temperatures, but they may still have more grip than a set of cheap all-season or winter tires in the absence of snow.

...Anyone have anecdotes?

Not anecdotes, science. When you make statements like the one above, it's like saying I don't wear a condom and and I've never gotten an std, so not wearing a condom has to be at least as good as wearing a cheap condom.

All season tires are a compromise but they will be better in every way shape and form than a sticky summer tire. Better still would be a set of snow tires. Sticky summer tires are sticky because of their compound, likewise winter tire compound is designed to stay compliant at low temperatures, that's why they work.