Gordo's Targa Vent Window Swap - Fixed to Rotating
 

Swapped out the fixed vent windows with a set of rotating vent windows on my 83 SC Targa this week.


Here's the gig…

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Removed the door speakers and Appbiz RS panels. 4 bolts hold the vent window / frame in place.

Removed the plugs in the door jamb that cover 2 of the vent window frame bolts and removed the bolts:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1514431389.jpg


Removed the lower vent window frame bolt that is located below the window regulator (easily accessible with an allen head socket with extension).
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1514431535.jpg


Removed the 4th bolt that is just below the vent window / just forward of the main window, and pulled the fixed vent window out of the door:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1514431771.jpg


Removed the old caulk / sealant in the door channel where the vent window frame sits, and cleaned the channel with brake cleaner:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1514431863.jpg


Applied new caulk / sealant in the door channel (used Napa "Glass Setting Butyl Tape" part # 4195).
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1514432067.jpg


Inserted the rotating vent window frame, aligned (to the main window) and replaced the 4 bolts that hold the frame to the door:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1514432172.jpg

Pretty easy job…

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WORD of CAUTION for TARGA OWNERS

I can see how the glass setting butyl tape could quickly become addictive - once I used it, I immediately considered quite a few other locations where it could be applied to reduce wind noise, water leaks etc. - it's good stuff.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1514432532.jpg

The tape comes in ~ 20' rolls, possibly enough to seal a Targa ;)

The smooth side of the backing material (paper) works well to smooth out the applied caulk.

Yea - that's it, I'll just paste it up...

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Gordo

Wow, that's much easier than I expected. Thanks for posting this.

Where did you source the rotating windows? I would need chrome, which I imagine might be more common than black.

Mark

Looking good Gordo.
Did mine a couple of years ago on my ‘78.
They are awesome. And yes, fairly simple to swap over.
Porsche never should have stopped offering them, especially for non A/C cars like mine.
I went with chrome with my bright trim windows.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1514439094.jpg

Nice work! Where did you find them?

I imagine they’re only available on the used market, so not easy to find (especially for a Targa). I agree that switching to fixed windows was a mistake (except for cost cutting by the factory).

Great thread, anyone know if this would work on a 964?

As of last night, there was a set of 912 window frames on the early S registry with clear pivoting vent windows.

I am doing this conversion on my RSR project, except with full frames. Couple tips here: Targa and coupe pivoting frames are NOT the same. They are easy to confuse. Targa is more common. Pivoting green glass is very tough to locate. Took me a over a year to find a set.

Thanks for the write up !

I have thinking about installing the opening vent windows on my Targa and should have picked up a pair for $150 a few years ago.

Now it seems like everyone wants to charge $500 and up for a well used set :-(

just a note regarding the "green" glass. Makrolon is available in DOT green for making the vent windows if you're not queasy about using "plastic" in this application.
It's a pretty good match for the stock green-tinted door glass.

No Project Survives First Contact...
 

I jumped on a well priced, nice condition used set of vent windows about ~ 2 years ago - just now getting around to installing (I thought it was more involved…). The vent windows I have are painted black, but I think they were originally chromed.

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While I'm at it...

No easy job can survive the "while I'm at it" bug that makes projects extend well beyond what the original project should take.

In my unending effort to adjust everything Targa related, I pulled my window regulator stops and found that they are completely destroyed:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1514499612.jpg

New parts ordered:

(2) 911-542-937-42 Window Lifter Stop (metal brackets) and
(2) 911-542-235-40 Cross-Arm Stop (plastic inserts)

Good thing it's winter and I'm not inclined to drive the car - the parts are backordered, (everywhere I called) and need to be shipped from "Germany" (i.e made in China, shipped to Germany and sold / shipped as OEM Porsche parts…) ~ 3 weeks to arrive.

Gordo

Great summary. I am planning to do exactly the same this weekend. When you pulled out the vent window was the main window up or down? (or does it make a difference?)

I'm in the process of doing this on my '87 targa. To answer your question, remove the triangle window and frame with the door window in the down position.

I am using what are most likely "Middie" ventilator windows/frames. Originally they were black from the factory and are brass. After a complete refurbish and attempted install, I have noticed that these frames are slightly thinner than the factory fitted triangle window frames on my 1987 MY targa. No issues with the door window and channel, but I am having to "engineer" the seal/joint rubber at the leading edge of the door where the ventilator frame meets with the door.

I have concluded there was a change in frame width starting in 1987. According to the PET, the 911 531 711 41 01C Joint Rubber left and the 911 531 712 41 01C Joint Rubber right are required on my model year and newer targas and since ventilators were not an option on late MY targas, the two new joint rubbers that I have to install are wider to accommodate the wider frame of the '87 and up model year targas.

The joint rubber is the small piece of plastic secured by a plastic rivet at the bottom of the leading edge of the triangle window. On my factory triangle window, this piece fits snugly around the double contour of the inner portion of the frame. The same is true for the new joint rubber I have to install. The new joint rubber is correctly sized for it's application and unfortunately needs to be adapted to the thinner ventilator window frames.

Furthermore, addressed in the factory service training center bulletin on Sealing of 911 (a PDF I can send if you would like) is the proper installation of the joint rubber onto the window frame where Porsche recommends drilling into the triangle window frame to allow for the retaining plug to securely fasten the joint rubber. Apparently the door/windshield frame to window seal prior to '87 was molded with a transition piece which didn't require the joint rubber part.

Be aware of potential wind/noise/water intrusion if this joint rubber/transition isn't properly addressed. My plan is to place some foam/rubber and butyl tape on the inside of the window frame so as to ensure a proper seal to the door/windshield frame seal. It will probably require more butyl tape (what I refer to as gum-puckey) than I would like. We'll see how it turns out.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1583340242.JPG

Thank you for the tips and the part numbers (I would have never found them).
Yes it would be great if you could send me the PDF.
My e-mail is czulrich AT gmail DOT com

Email sent

The factory eliminated the opening vent wing due to make life a little more difficult for thieves.

I could see that being the case for coupes but a targa has easier ways to get in...especially with the top off!

Just finished installing the passenger side ventilator. Poor lighting in the garage doesn't do it justice. It's really a cool retro look in my opinion.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1583460170.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1583460170.JPG

Are you all putting new rubber in or rocking as is?

I installed new ventilator window frame seal, new window stop and new window channel felt. Mostly plug and play for the fixed triangle window I pulled out. The joint rubber required a little engineering with double sided tape, some 3M super adhesive double sided tape and windshield butyl tape.

In the recent past I installed new outer door felt (fuzzy seal-see this post for more info http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/1018489-targa-window-felt-general-service.html) and exterior window squeegee so I'm pretty well protected from the exterior. I have yet to see how the window performs at speed and in the wet.

Thanks for your help guys, results below.
I ordered the joint rubber pieces and they fit well (attached with 3M tape).
I still have a little bit of wind noise that I'm chasing, but then again if you can't deal with wind noise, don't buy a Targa ;-)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1584312780.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1584312780.JPG

Is there enough clearance from the side mirrors to fully open the vent windows (trailing edge towards front of car) for max air intake?

Yes, they will open fully without hitting the stock flag mirrors.

the side mirrors aren't even close, so you can open it as much as you want.
However: The mechanism of the vent windows only allows to open them 90 degrees.

Quick question as I gather parts to do this myself. Are the clips that hold the vent window posts different from side-to-side? The vent windows I bought came without them, and the replacement clips I bought were identical to one another.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1618947654.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1618947654.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1618947654.jpg

I have a set of these from a 74 targa silver trim that I'd love to trade for a fixed set new seals including the corner piece

RDM, I'm pretty sure they are different side to side. The collar on the clip is supposed to be on the top side of the pivot pin, closest to the window frame. Take a close look at the picture below from my restoration of my vent windows.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1619185943.JPG