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McLovin's Avatar
 
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I've had both 3.0 and 3.2, and like both.

I agree with much of the above. The 3.0 is great, but it's not better than the 3.2. The CIS v. Motronic alone makes sure of that. The CIS can work well, but it's a fairly kludged together '60s/early 70s tech, while Motronic is pretty much the peak of fuel injection simplicity.
Old 01-07-2018, 08:22 PM
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I would just add that when comparing any two cars you have to be careful that it's a fair comparison. Any car that is 'well sorted' is going to seem better than a car that needs maintenance. Therefore trying to attribute the differences in feel to generational differences alone is not always viable for comparison.
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Old 01-08-2018, 06:23 AM
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Right. A really properly sorted CIS 3.0 with a 915 that works is really very good. I'm sure it was a rocket back in 1982, but not now, so things need to be kept in perspective.
Old 01-08-2018, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetSpeed View Post
Been hunting for a Targa from the SC years through to late 80's G50 years and wondering exactly what makes the SC's -seem- so desirable? I've been told they are, "bomb-proof" engines, but -why-?? How do the SC's differ from LATER year engines that seems to make them, "better?"

I'm asking because I simply do not know. Thanks!!
I think one area where the 3.0 engine is more robust is the rod bolts: these were reduced in size in the 3.2 engines. Apparently this makes them more prone to stretching and eventual failure at high (6500+) rpms. But for those of us you don't use their 911s as race cars, the difference is only on paper.
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Old 01-08-2018, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Douglas View Post
My ROW SC with the euro 930/10 engine with cams and SSIs goes nicely. I test drove a 3.2 thinking it was an upgrade but it felt a bit sluggish. Didn't want to rev and didn't really have that get up and go that the SC has.
I am sure cams and SSIs make your SC run great, but install a modern Steve Wong chip and a free breathing exhaust, and you will have a 3.2 motor that feel alive.

Not to pick a nit, but the chart shows 84-86 Carerra's the same weight as the later G50 car. My understanding that the G50, while a better transmission, was 50ish lbs heavier (edit: I looked it up, 27 lbs). The later cars still had a lb/hp advantage from the factory, but only a small one.

(edit: Agree with Matt, great chart. Thanks for sharing. )
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Last edited by gregwils; 01-08-2018 at 10:09 AM.. Reason: Correction and acknowledgement
Old 01-08-2018, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Verburg View Post
ok
Great chart. As always thanks for the data.
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Old 01-08-2018, 09:50 AM
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Everything makes mine special... a perfect cross between John Deere lawn tractor (915), jet ski (3.0), and single engine Cessna (all that great noise)
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Old 01-09-2018, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wannaporsche View Post
Everything makes mine special... a perfect cross between John Deere lawn tractor (915), jet ski (3.0), and single engine Cessna (all that great noise)
Right on.

Thing is, Bruce Anderson (RIP) and Associates bagged on midyears and 2.7s for decades - and never, ever really pressed home that SCs break studs, blow air boxes like any other CIS car, rust (yes, they do, and I have seen them rust worse in person than my '75) and the list goes on.

I am of the school, and always have been that every 911 is special. From the longhoods until 1989 - they are special. I was never set on a year. I would have taken any year. SC, Carrera, midyear, longhood - as long as it did not have rust. I just wanted a rust-free car. Luckily I found that and it was cheap six years ago - with a rebuilt 2.7 to boot.
Old 01-09-2018, 01:53 PM
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… well jee whiz hate to counter and pop everyone's opinion water bag here but the truth is there is absolutely nothing special about an SC … sure it has a dropped hood but so does a COE truck and we know they steer kinda good and no doubt are a snap in the pants … yeah so … I mean once you learn how to shift the damn thing and sure wow it has two usable seats … big deal so does my skidoo … I mean they made thousands and thousands of these doughy eyed buggers and they all look alike … roundish except for different colors but so does opening up a bag of M & M's … so just snap out of it … you guys should get organized and some kind souls should collect as many as possible and turn them all into statued yard art and planters with big sun flowers spouting out all over them … Heck with all that said and if you truly want something unique and special with a very low year number production run then by all means go buy a 1957 Buick Roadmaster Coupe … 2,800 total built …. probably only 20 left on the road today … :')
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Old 01-12-2018, 06:27 PM
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SC is special. It saved the 911 lineage. 83 was supposed to be the last of the 911's but luckily Porsche decided to keep 911 in production.
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Old 01-12-2018, 07:04 PM
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For me, the SC is the last air cooled 911 that retains the agile handling and free revving engine of its predecessors. I prefer the 915 over the G50 and the CIS system is still serviceable by the layman. Sure, it has less power than a 3.2, so to cover ground quickly is more challenging. That's the fun for me.
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Old 01-13-2018, 01:30 AM
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Sc 911

My first 911 was 69, then up to 72 then 79 SC ,and last now 84 Carrera.
My opinion is that the SC is special because of these items.
No1 ---Its age ,it is now 40 years old,with age it represents increased value.

No2----It was the first with a 3 liter, that represents performance and power.

No3----It is probably the most dependable model,with a great reputation.

No4----Still looks great today, just as much, or more than when sold new.

No5----Drives fantastic, and better than most 40 year old cars.
Old 01-13-2018, 02:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
Great chart. As always thanks for the data.
I swear Bill has a chart for ever aspect of these cars!!
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Old 01-13-2018, 05:58 AM
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This argument always seems to pop up every year... and it always ends up with someone pointing out that Porsche always knew that the SC was superior to the Carrera, that is why they dropped the "S" off the branding of the Carrera in '84. The Super Carrera, is just that, Super. And the later Carrera, well is just a Carrera. And if you don't like that simple answer then please don't search for SCWDP.

Now, my real opinion... I've owned 2 SCs, I loved each one, the 82 more than my 79. Because there was improvements. A rule of thumb has always been to buy the newest best condition model you can get. Now this rule does not always work... As you would never choose a 996 over a 993. But in this case it does. SC's are great cars and so are Carreras. If all things were equal mileage and condition you would be a fool not to take a 89 Carrera over a 79 SC.
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Old 01-13-2018, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryR View Post
I swear Bill has a chart for ever aspect of these cars!!
Go check out the brake info on his website sometime.
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Old 01-13-2018, 12:41 PM
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Both the SC and the Carrera have a 95mm piston, so with the shorter stroke the SC can naturally rev more. And the Carrera is more of a slogger.
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Old 01-13-2018, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McLovin View Post
I've had both 3.0 and 3.2, and like both.

I agree with much of the above. The 3.0 is great, but it's not better than the 3.2. The CIS v. Motronic alone makes sure of that. The CIS can work well, but it's a fairly kludged together '60s/early 70s tech, while Motronic is pretty much the peak of fuel injection simplicity.
CIS gives much more lively (quicker) throttle response than Motronic; the later being nicer to the environment with less risk of unburned hydrocarbons.
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Old 01-13-2018, 01:31 PM
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OK, let me be the one to p*** off all the SC lovers. Like the guy above said, there is nothing special about the SC. Now, before I receive the death threats, an SC is a 911. So its automatically high in the automotive pecking order. A 911 is good, no matter its year or displacement. The various evolutions have more similarities than differences, variations on a theme, and all of us will have some particular model that appeals to us more than the others.

Now, back to the SC, which personally is my least favorite of the lineage.

Engine: Durable, though with a few achilles heels of its own, just like every other iteration. Reasonably powerful. More "drivable" than the earlier cars, which meant more torque, which one could interpret as "dumbed down" for the American market, which was part of the strategy in the late '70's. A product of needing to sell cars to Americans familiar with big V8's loafing through traffic at 1200 rpm. Not that the SC is bad, it just doesn't sing like the early motors did at high RPM. BOSCH CIS was quite effective both in the 2.7s and 3.0s at meeting the emissions requirements of the day, pre-electronic engine management, and still managing to make reasonable performance. But it certainly lost both the old-fashioned joy of gulping air and fuel through six venturies, and the over-the-top glory of raw fuel forced into a motor under intense pressure by Bosch MFI.

Transmission: The 915. Nothing wrong with that. Nor anything particularly special. Used for 16 years. Like all Porsche transmissions, very durable if treated well. Does not appreciate quick or clumsy shifting. Not as buttery smooth as the 901, though able to take considerably more torque. It does unequivocally sound like a box of rocks under no load, sitting at idle, which gave rise to many customer complaints and the development of the G50, which, quite frankly, still sounds like a box of rocks.

Body: Galvanized steel throughout, which is great, but is also true of many 2.7's and all 3.2's. The SC was noticeably heavier than its predecessors through a continuously increasing luxuriousness, more insulation, fancier materials, etc. All shifting the 911 more towards the comfy end of the spectrum. A nod to a general worldwide trend in cars towards the end of the 1970's, and particularly to American tastes.

Styling: More "stuff" on the body. The flared rear arches and wider wheels. The massive "flag" mirrors which first appeared in '76. And the shift away from bright trim to the industrial anodized black. Clunky fog lamps under the bumper. And the profusion of picnic table sized wings. All this transformed the 911 from its rather pretty earlier self, to a sort of a comic book superhero look. Blocky and tough looking, not unlike the plastic clad "batman" character in the movies. Admittedly its a matter of personal taste. But to my eyes the SC is not as attractive as its more slender and shiny predecessors. Adding insult to injury, and continuing the industrial theme, Porsche stylists blacked out the wonderful "daisy" pattern of the fuchs wheels. Adding more insult, the genius of the Lapine years was fading and it seems like they painted about 90% of the things either gaurds red or black. The 3.2 was no improvement though.

Uniqueness: They aint! The SC was the single longest model run, going 7 whole years. They made a bunch of them. The 3.2 made only 6 years. The 2.7 was around only 4. The origninal SWB 2.0 was 4 years production. Other various iterations of the "longhoods" were only 1 or 2 years each. Not that it matters. They are all 911s. Come to think of it, as far as sports cars go, 911s in general are fairly plentiful. They made the things for 35 years. A few hundred thousand of them (I end my accounting at '89 as 964's and 993's are signifcantly departed enough from original that I don't consider them 911s).

I realize its a matter of personal taste, but for me the special ones are the 2 liter cars. Willing little engines that just sing. Simple. Light. Pretty. They take a delicate touch to pedal quickly, reward the skilled, and frustrate those who are not. As far as engines go, no street engine is sweeter than the 2.2 MFI motor. A few years ago my wife bought an '88 carrera. Motronic sure makes the 3.2 smooth and trouble free, and the power is impressive. So in summary, out of the bunch, the SC is perhaps the least special. I've owned two, and driven many. Not bad cars at all. Nothing wrong with them. But nothing particularly special either.
Old 01-13-2018, 03:27 PM
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Exactly Dave, that's why I like my SC. I don't want to spend all day fixing a MFI on a 2.0 or 2.2 engine. My SC likes to be driven.

And it does the 0 to 60 in 5.7 seconds. Or even faster with the weight loss and SSIs. Not that I would try it. I'd hate to spill my latte.
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Old 01-13-2018, 05:57 PM
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When you pull the stick up to 10,000 ft and look down they are all "G" body cars.
Add the most advanced air cooled motor (993) and just have FUN.
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Old 01-13-2018, 06:04 PM
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