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Question Bushings for a street-legal sports SC

I want to transform a MY1980 RoW SC to be as sports-oriented as possible while remaining street legal. The usage will be about 70% hard mountain driving including historic rallies and 30% track.

I'm spec'ing the suspension at the moment and have come to the topic of bushings, camber plates, etc. From the many performance options such as polyurethane, polybronze, sphericals, etc. which combination do you think is the best option for my intended use?

Links to any thread with info on an application similar to mine will also be greatly appreciated!
Old 01-12-2018, 05:10 PM
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Get rid of the rubber in the suspension

Talk to chuck at elephant, he will help you make some decisions about how far you really want to go.
It sounds like you want a race car on the street, so, getting rid of the rubber might be the way to go. Reports back from guys with polybronze say it's not to harsh.
I have a wife and don't get to the track too often, so opted for rubber, sport hardness where available 50% stiffer T bars and as much adjustability S I could get to facilitate corner weighting.
Look up CraigD's suspension thread for a lot of good input and pics.
Chris
Old 01-12-2018, 05:36 PM
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what's the budget? ive used the hard polys on my old spec car and current 75 hotrod and found them very good for the rears. some will say they are noisy, to this point I used a jigsaw to cut grooves in the inner surface where they mate with the spring plate about 1/2" apart, 1/8" deep and fill the grooves with grease upon assembly. no noticeable noise, but not really a concern of mine so maybe it might bother some.

I used elephant on the front of my spec racer and have gone to polys in the new 75 using the grease grooves there too. the polys can require sanding to prevent too much friction, binding against the spring plates and a arms.

I did have it to do over again and skipped the poly bronzes due to the cost and am fine with the hard polys. they are the best value IMO.
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Old 01-12-2018, 05:42 PM
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Thanks for the mention Chris. Here's my thread on a canyon carving suspension rebuild that might fit your needs. In any case, I cover the entire project from start to finish.

I went with PolyBronze rear spring plate bushings, and Elephant Racing rubber everywhere else.

'78 SC Elephant Racing Suspension Rebuild
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:13 PM
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I've been daily driving rebel racing bushings for five years. Work great.

Suspension1
Old 01-13-2018, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WP0ZZZ View Post
I want to transform a MY1980 RoW SC to be as sports-oriented as possible while remaining street legal. The usage will be about 70% hard mountain driving including historic rallies and 30% track.

I'm spec'ing the suspension at the moment and have come to the topic of bushings, camber plates, etc. From the many performance options such as polyurethane, polybronze, sphericals, etc. which combination do you think is the best option for my intended use?

Links to any thread with info on an application similar to mine will also be greatly appreciated!
It's going to be a compromise either way, just depends on priorities

On my 2 cars, one is more track oriented and so has 100% monoball connections, very precise, no stiction, It's drivable on the street but the track is where it shines. The down side is that monoballs just won't last as long as the oe rubber. But because there isn't a lot of mileage compared to a daily driver and the extra inspection because of track use I can stay on top of it. So far 3 mono-balls have been replaced in 10yrs.

On the other mostly fun street use I went w/ sport rubber where available so there is some regular and some sport, I don't know how hard you drive but there is no way I can drive as hard on the street as on track, not even close. So the rubber is fine and needs zero maintenance til I replace the suspension in another 30 to 40 yrs.
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Old 01-13-2018, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by kjchristopher View Post
I've been daily driving rebel racing bushings for five years. Work great.

Suspension1
The front and rear bushing sets plus Rebelís slick adjustable rear spring plates, engine and tranny mounts are being installed on my recently acquired 73 hot rod as we speak. Canít wait to get the car back next week to experience the ride difference!
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Old 01-13-2018, 03:14 PM
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Thank you very much for the many detailed replies! Craig_D's thread will be an incredible resource once I start working on the suspension (hopefully soon!)

Had a look at the suspension builder at Elephant Racing. My profile seems to be between "Street/Track 1" and "Street/Track 2". According to this I'm right at the divide between sphericals and polybronze for the front control arm bushings...

On the track I drive much more aggressively than even the day I'm pushing the most on a mountain road. However, I would like a setup that works for both...
Old 01-13-2018, 07:00 PM
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Like Bill said it will be a compromise. I did sphericals from ER and polybronze on the rear. I don’t have enough track time to know if I would be happier with something else but this combo is fine for street use. Consider your t bar rates, shocks, sways, etc. I did 21/28. Most people that track a lot tell me they go much stiffer. Covential wisdom seems to be around 21/28 is the sweet spot for street/track. Those who suggest stiffer t bars tend to also recommend adjustable shocks so you can have different street and track settings.

Of course, you will find no shortage of opinions on this subject.

The bottom line with spherical or polybronze is they prevent pinching/binding under load. Eventually rubber will oval and bind.
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Old 01-13-2018, 10:31 PM
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I'm not sure where all the "harshness" mentioned on theses threads comes from when replacing bushings? I ran Elephant polybronze all around in several cars, and the one's with stock or close to stock T-Bars and standard or sport shocks ride seemed the same to me, just much more responsive. When you have your front A-Arm and rear swing arm free with the OEM bushings, move it around a bit so you see how it flexes in multiple axis points and then do it with the polybronze (or Rebel) bushings. It moves perfectly smoothly in only the plane the arm was designed to swing in, with practically 0 resistance. Rubber is fine, especially the Elephant Sport version, but if you want it tight go poly.. I do agree with Bill about the monoballs, they have a relatively short life and are not serviceable. I've considered putting rubber there and most likely would have on my next rebuild for a 100% street car... Just MHO of course.

Don't forget attention to your (Turbo) Tie Rods and ball joints, all part of the handling deal..
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Old 01-14-2018, 05:07 AM
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My $.02

Poly (the cheap ones) bound up real bad on the front of my car. I replaced with Delrin. They were some work to get to move smooth, but they're nice with the exception of the noise.

For the spring plate I have poly inners and Delrin outers. Less noisy than the Delrin fronts.

If I had to do it again I'd live with the small loss of precision with rubber, and that's on a car that is an 85% autocross car.
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Old 01-15-2018, 04:37 AM
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Elephant Polybronze absolutely require regular greasing, I used Mobil 1 (red) and never had an issue..
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Old 01-15-2018, 05:30 AM
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Hey, nice marmot.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryR View Post
Elephant Polybronze absolutely require regular greasing, I used Mobil 1 (red) and never had an issue..
That is true. Chuck suggested to me a good rule of thumb is grease every oil change or 3k miles.
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Old 01-15-2018, 06:39 AM
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I've been using Red Line 80402 Synthetic Grease. Works great. Takes maybe 5 minutes to do each year.

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Old 01-15-2018, 10:42 AM
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