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New-ish 911SC Targa Owner
 
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Elephant 1B universal Crossover pipe compatible with Billy Boat heat exchangers?

I recently picked up some Billy Boat (B&B) heat exchangers for my '83 3.0. They didn't come with the oil line that needs to be replaced that connects motor to the thermostat and so i have to purchase that separately.
I can order the braided line from B&B that they usually include or for slightly less money i can pick up the Elephant Racing 1B crossover pipe:


Can anyone confirm that the Elephant Racing item will work with the B&B heat exchangers?

I know that I'll have to do something with the return S pipe too but figure i'll cross that bridge later. i might just wrap it with some heat insulating wrap or route it differently with some similarly sized universal oil hose.
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'83 Targa 3.0 - 9.3:1, 2.7 crank, 930/52 case, stock heads & cam, AEM EPM, AEM Infinity 506, Triumph T595 throttle bodies, B&B headers.
'95 W124 E320 wagon (the daily driver)
'13 Volvo XC60 (hers)
Old 02-01-2018, 09:58 AM
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There is enough room across the front of the motor to use the SSI type scavenge line.
Real concern is the S hose. They make a stainless replacement for the rubber hose with rubber connector on each end.

Bruce
Old 02-01-2018, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pampadori View Post
I recently picked up some Billy Boat (B&B) heat exchangers for my '83 3.0. They didn't come with the oil line that needs to be replaced that connects motor to the thermostat and so i have to purchase that separately.
I can order the braided line from B&B that they usually include or for slightly less money i can pick up the Elephant Racing 1B crossover pipe:


Can anyone confirm that the Elephant Racing item will work with the B&B heat exchangers?

I know that I'll have to do something with the return S pipe too but figure i'll cross that bridge later. i might just wrap it with some heat insulating wrap or route it differently with some similarly sized universal oil hose.
Assuming that the Elephant line is more or less a clone of the early factory style, then no problem, I have always used the early factory ones
Here' B&B 1.75" w/ the early factory style line



The S hose is tight, first be sure to use an angled feeder


Then insulation of the hose is a good idea

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Old 02-01-2018, 11:26 AM
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Thanks for the reply Bruce. So it sounds like the 1B Elephant Racing crossover pipe, or the pre '74 crossover pipe 91110773910 will work. Is that what you are saying? that I could use the cheaper SSI type scavenge line?
Understood about the S hose.
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'83 Targa 3.0 - 9.3:1, 2.7 crank, 930/52 case, stock heads & cam, AEM EPM, AEM Infinity 506, Triumph T595 throttle bodies, B&B headers.
'95 W124 E320 wagon (the daily driver)
'13 Volvo XC60 (hers)
Old 02-01-2018, 11:40 AM
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When I installed the BB set up I went with the following:
Oil Line Cross Over Pipe: 911-107-739-10-M127
Oil Line from Crossover Pipe to Thermostat: 911-107-729-10-M127

I didn't like the braided line and couldn't find a good solution to routing it. I did however go with their S hose and its been fine for a couple years.
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Old 02-01-2018, 01:11 PM
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Pretty sure the Elephant version routes the same as the early factory version, except that instead of hugging the transaxle on the bottom, it does it from the top. It goes over the tranny instead of under, that way it is out of the way for either the early/SSI style or late SC-crossover-to-the-cat type systems.
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Old 02-01-2018, 01:53 PM
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Get the Elephant universal crossover because it will basically last forever. The B&B braided stainless flex line is a nicely made hose + fittings combo, but it's a small diameter hose (AN-12) and the crimps can fail. I have one of the B&B hoses on the shelf which has a partially split crimp collar.

It's worth noting that a lot of people have struggled with how to route the B&B line. Most people's first choice seems to be a route that goes under the engine. This leaves the hose exposed to whatever passes under the car and it could get hooked & pulled by something. My current car came to me from my friend Mark (RIP) and he had it routed underneath, protected with some heavy rubber hose to avoid chafing things it rested against. Another downside to the stainless braid, despite its flexibility, is it acts like a hacksaw if it's not well secured. A loose fit and vibration will cause the braid to chew into just about whatever it touches.

Here's how Mark had it routed. It wasn't until I saw Elephant's over-the-top universal line that it occurred to me the B&B braided flex line could (should?) go up over the transmission.




You can see in the picture how the 90 fitting coming off the engine is a nice long radius bend and almost touches the heater box. Whereas the Elephant universal is a short tight bend that will keep it far away from the heater box and go in a different direction to the front of the car. I have the Elephant universal line on my 3.2 and it hugs the corner of the engine and the top of the transmission quite tightly.

I had the B&B headers on the car when I got it from Mark and then recently switched to the typical Euro racing headers. The Elephant line clears both header setups. Keep in mind you'll need to support the universal line where it ends at the wheel well and connects with another line that changes direction to meet up with the thermostat.

One thing that came to mind, if you happen to be using the B&B muffler & its bracket with your headers. I'd recommend taking a close look at the bracket and see if it needs any reinforcement. The bracket fits well but is prone to cracking. I think a lot of the muffler cracking that B&B is known for can be related to the muffler bracket not supporting the muffler very well. Here's how I braced the bracket with some strips of metal welded to the sides of the two separate bracket pieces. If you look closely at the picture, below the long diagonal braces are some vertical welds. Those are repairing the cracks in the bracket.

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Old 02-01-2018, 01:54 PM
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Thanks everyone for the suggestions and confirmations. I ended up going with the standard oe crossover tube and thermostat line from a 1974 model. Prices on those vary greatly from supplier to supplier. I went with a brand called "German" from a local parts place. I like to buy from host but sometimes the the deal is just too good to pass on elsewhere.

For the S hose I'm going to add a section of stainless tube with a slight bend in it and then cut portions of my factory S hose to attach to the tube. That is tonight's project.

As for the muffler, I purchased a used Billy Boat 2 in and 1 out from the classifieds here. The bracket looks just like the one you showed a pic of. Same gray paint and everything. I'll have to check it when i get home to see if the welds are present too. Did you let yours go perhaps? i wonder if i purchased your old muffler?

A word on the muffler (used but in pretty good shape)- THe design is terrible. The outlet fitting is welded on blocking a good 15% of the outlet from the actual can. And worse still, its a 2.5" outlet on the can and they welded a 3 inch fitting on it. Its not even a true 3" outlet. And it weighs a ton more than the aftermarket its replacing (made for standard single inlet setup).
A look inside reveals all sorts of restrictions that could have been done better to aid in flow. I almost wonder if they added all of these restriction-plagued features to deal with the drone that everyone used to complain about. It is seriously garbage. I plan to replace it with a Magnaflow 12267 in the coming months. The dimensions are close enough and i can run it backwards so the outlets end up being the inlets and the inlet becomes the outlet.
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'83 Targa 3.0 - 9.3:1, 2.7 crank, 930/52 case, stock heads & cam, AEM EPM, AEM Infinity 506, Triumph T595 throttle bodies, B&B headers.
'95 W124 E320 wagon (the daily driver)
'13 Volvo XC60 (hers)
Old 02-08-2018, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Verburg View Post
Assuming that the Elephant line is more or less a clone of the early factory style, then no problem, I have always used the early factory ones
Here' B&B 1.75" w/ the early factory style line

. . .
The Elephant Universal Crossover goes over the top of the bellhousing at the same location instead of across the bottom like shown in your picture.

NOTE: If you have a G50 there is a boss sticking up on the top of the bellhousing that blocks the crossover tube!!!

Back to the original post...
The Elephant line works great with the B&B headers/heat exchangers. I have had this setup on my car for at least 50K miles.
I did not go with the weird B&B "sink trap" S hose though. I wrapped the primaries on the passenger side to insulate them from the hose. To get the S hose to fit with no contact I trimmed the tank end of the hose so it is as short as possible. Just check the header wrap every year or so to make sure it isn't coming unraveled.
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Old 02-08-2018, 03:37 PM
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