Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > Porsche 911 Technical Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 34
3.0SC engine to FIA 3.0 rs or SCRS

Hi Guys,

has anyone built an FIA approved 3.0RS or SCRS engine out of a standard 3.0SC?

Is there any documentations or books that I could follow? Thanks,
Old 02-07-2018, 08:37 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 6,955
Oh yes.

You simply need to pore over every book & manual pertinent to these two vehicles and then source all the special parts & components needed to build a period-correct example. While certainly possible, its NOT cheap to do at all.
__________________
Steve Weiner
Rennsport Systems
Portland Oregon
(503) 244-0990
porsche@rennsportsystems.com
www.rennsportsystems.com
Old 02-07-2018, 08:40 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
billybek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 5,667
Garage


Sure love the way it sounds!
__________________
Bill K.
"I started out with nothin and I still got most of it left...."
83 911 SC Guards Red
And a bunch of parts I haven't installed yet.
Old 02-07-2018, 09:09 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Hilbilly Deluxe
 
emcon5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Reno
Posts: 6,429
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve@Rennsport View Post
While certainly possible, its NOT cheap to do at all.
Where would you even find a Kugelfischer mechanical fuel injection system?
__________________
82 911SC Coupe
GTI Cup #43
Old 02-07-2018, 09:14 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve@Rennsport View Post
Oh yes.

You simply need to pore over every book & manual pertinent to these two vehicles and then source all the special parts & components needed to build a period-correct example. While certainly possible, its NOT cheap to do at all.
Thanks Steve. Can you help me which books/manual should i get?
Old 02-07-2018, 11:18 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Bill Verburg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 22,988
Garage
3.0RS used Bosh MFI, SC/RS used Kugelfisher

A modern EFI w/ ITBs , something like Motec would be much more doable

the p/c, cams, rods, valves etc are all available if not exactly cheap
__________________
Bill Verburg
'76 Carrera 3.6RS(nee C3/hotrod), '95 993RS/CS(clone)
| Pelican Home |Rennlist Wheels |Rennlist Brakes |
Old 02-08-2018, 04:53 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
gearhead
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Loverland, CO
Posts: 14,801
Quote:
Originally Posted by emcon5 View Post
Where would you even find a Kugelfischer mechanical fuel injection system?
Wire me $50k and Iíll get one for you.
__________________
1974 911 Restorod
1974 914 Bumble Bee
1975 911S Tom's Targa
2008 Cayman S Mule
Old 02-08-2018, 07:28 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 899
how does a SC/RS drivetrian feel compared to a 3.0RS? i here they arent as tractable at low rpms compared to the earlier RS car. i have no experience with both cars.

more understeery too being lighter in the front with the alloy panels. Frere once said it was a extremely low volume homologated special and the chassis wasnt really dialed in being it was expected to be revamped once the rally team got them.

i got my 954 aka SC-RS reprinted parts and spec manual off some fellow in the uk here on pelican. i dont recall his name unfortunately.
Old 02-08-2018, 07:58 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 18,529
Quote:
Originally Posted by panzerfaust View Post
i got my 954 aka SC-RS reprinted parts and spec manual off some fellow in the uk here on pelican. i dont recall his name unfortunately.
Mike, MB Engineering?
Old 02-08-2018, 08:27 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
group911@aol.co's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Denver
Posts: 6,653
I thought I saw a pump or maybe an engine with the pump in for sale section
__________________
Thanks,
Bob
group911@aol.com
Old 02-08-2018, 08:31 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
WP0ZZZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: ROW
Posts: 239
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Verburg View Post
A modern EFI w/ ITBs , something like Motec would be much more doable
And easier to tune!
Old 02-08-2018, 08:49 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
group911@aol.co's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Denver
Posts: 6,653
Here you go. 911/83 74 Carrera ROW/ RS engine 2.9 Andial kugelfischer MFI
__________________
Thanks,
Bob
group911@aol.com
Old 02-08-2018, 09:37 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 6,955
Quote:
Originally Posted by panzerfaust View Post
how does a SC/RS drivetrian feel compared to a 3.0RS? i here they arent as tractable at low rpms compared to the earlier RS car. i have no experience with both cars.

more understeery too being lighter in the front with the alloy panels. Frere once said it was a extremely low volume homologated special and the chassis wasnt really dialed in being it was expected to be revamped once the rally team got them.

i got my 954 aka SC-RS reprinted parts and spec manual off some fellow in the uk here on pelican. i dont recall his name unfortunately.
We have a genuine SC/RS at the shop right now and its a TOTALLY different animal from any SC,.....

Remember, the 3.0RS was a street car made for RSR homologation. The SC/RS is a race/rally car and not designed nor meant for puttering about in traffic. The SC/RS can be made to handle very very well, depending on whether its used for tarmac rally or off-road events.
__________________
Steve Weiner
Rennsport Systems
Portland Oregon
(503) 244-0990
porsche@rennsportsystems.com
www.rennsportsystems.com
Old 02-08-2018, 09:44 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Under the radar
 
Trackrash's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sebastopol, the land of wine and redwoods in The Republic of California.
Posts: 5,002
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve@Rennsport View Post
We have a genuine SC/RS at the shop right now and its a TOTALLY different animal from any SC,.....

Remember, the 3.0RS was a street car made for RSR homologation. The SC/RS is a race/rally car and not designed nor meant for puttering about in traffic. The SC/RS can be made to handle very very well, depending on whether its used for tarmac rally or off-road events.
PICs, please.
__________________
Gordon
___________________________________
'71 911 Coupe 3,0L outlawed
#56 PCA Redwood Region, GGR, NASA, Speed SF
Trackrash's Garage :: My Garage
Old 02-08-2018, 09:49 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
WP0ZZZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: ROW
Posts: 239
Garage
Do you know where to find technical documentation about the SC/RS? I'm in the process of transforming an SC into a light rally/track car and I could do with some inspiration from the holy grail
Old 02-08-2018, 10:04 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Bill Verburg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 22,988
Garage
Here's a summary of the 2, the '74 was the homologation base for the 3.0RSR, the SC/RS was the homologation base for the rally cars of that era. The 3.0RS al block was a precursor of the later 930 block, similar but no quite the same
__________________
Bill Verburg
'76 Carrera 3.6RS(nee C3/hotrod), '95 993RS/CS(clone)
| Pelican Home |Rennlist Wheels |Rennlist Brakes |
Old 02-08-2018, 10:39 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Van Nuys
Posts: 9,796
RS 3.0 came with the same street mfi injection system as the 2.7RS, but with the pump calibrated for the larger displacement

SC/RS used a high butterfly race based system , with Kugelfischer pump, equal length plastic injection tubing. The fitted air cleaner system actually had an intake muffler on it to meet required noise standards !



__________________
1970 914-6 street"evil cockaroach"
1970 911 Spyder
1970 911S Conda
1973 911S Glacier Blue
Old 02-08-2018, 01:01 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 6,955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackrash View Post
PICs, please.
Its in Rothmans livery so it looks just like the ones you see on the Internet.
__________________
Steve Weiner
Rennsport Systems
Portland Oregon
(503) 244-0990
porsche@rennsportsystems.com
www.rennsportsystems.com
Old 02-08-2018, 01:22 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
The Mighty Pieholio
 
Bob Kontak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: North Canton, Ohio
Posts: 14,308
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
Wire me $50k and I’ll get one for you.
This has been on Ebay for years for a mere fraction of your price.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-911-954-SCRS-MFI-Pump-Kugelfischer-Bosch-91111041300/222164928774?hash=item33ba0fc906:g:izUAAOSwzJ5XbYh z&vxp=mtr
__________________
1981 911SC Targa
Old 02-08-2018, 01:34 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 899
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve@Rennsport View Post
We have a genuine SC/RS at the shop right now and its a TOTALLY different animal from any SC,.....

Remember, the 3.0RS was a street car made for RSR homologation. The SC/RS is a race/rally car and not designed nor meant for puttering about in traffic. The SC/RS can be made to handle very very well, depending on whether its used for tarmac rally or off-road events.
yes totally different using a 3.2 type M491 body too and not built on a SC or 930 body. panels, glass, pedals most of the motor and tranny guts are different.

judging but the suspension specs,even with the helper springs, i recall its a lot softer set up than my lighten M491 . they rally teams must have just chuck them in the bin as soon as the car arrived.

they are both 3.0RS and SC-RS are street cars made for homologation. at only 20 units was somewhat of an evolution cheater for group b which required 200 units. while the 3.0RS was a evo of a 2.7RS for the gr4 which is laughable since the cars are so very different. porsche must have coerced and pampered the scrutineers to get them to approve those numbers. :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by javadog View Post
Mike, MB Engineering?
yes thats it.. thank you

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRE Cup View Post
RS 3.0 came with the same street mfi injection system as the 2.7RS, but with the pump calibrated for the larger displacement

SC/RS used a high butterfly race based system , with Kugelfischer pump, equal length plastic injection tubing. The fitted air cleaner system actually had an intake muffler on it to meet required noise standards !



bosch ended up acquiring kuglefisher shortly after the SC-RS. I think they still own the rights to them.

that MFI airbox besides the noise suppressor is different too, larger plenum volume than the 2.7RS i believe. those bellmouths look huge, what size are they?

the muffler ran a rally 3 exit type in which u can plug all 3 openings for noise. any one make an aftermarket equivalent ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Kontak View Post
i saw a new in box sc-rs pump about ten years ago for sale, it was 12K and i thought that was outrageous then!

Last edited by panzerfaust; 02-09-2018 at 08:38 AM..
Old 02-08-2018, 03:44 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:14 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.