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Originally Posted by 49willard View Post
I must be really missing something. I do not see on my screen a blue button that is below the mountain image even if I go to "go advanced". I tried to copy and paste what I have for a screen which includes the mountain image but no luck.
Use the "post Reply" function instead of quick reply - you will find the blue upload bar there, if you scroll down a bit

Jason
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Old 03-07-2018, 10:42 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #101 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Tippy View Post
There's a whole thread on the topic of 'restoration'.

Restoration has moved up to the oil and AC ranks...
I will check it out, although this has been one of the more informative and factual threads on restoration I’ve seen on this forum, even in the restoration forum which is not as active.
Old 03-07-2018, 12:04 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #102 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Tippy View Post
Might want to read the definition of concours
Simply a contest but the term is understood as to intent wrt to paint.

Concours winning/placing car maybe is a better term?

FWIW............

Saw a 356 with that long chain engine at a Ft Worth gathering ten years ago. Black.

Probably the most flawless paint job I have ever seen.

Not a big deal but I asked the guy about it and he said he had it painted for $800 at a shop nearby his house. He was lying like a rug.

When you just blow off (politely) people that ask you about your paint job you are probably just tired of talking to people about your paint job. That's how good it was.
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Old 03-07-2018, 12:15 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #103 (permalink)
49willard
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 49willard View Post
I must be really missing something. I do not see on my screen a blue button that is below the mountain image even if I go to "go advanced". I tried to copy and paste what I have for a screen which includes the mountain image but no luck.
Success, Thanks for your help posting!



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1986 Grand Prix White Cabriolet

Last edited by 49willard; 03-07-2018 at 12:49 PM..
Old 03-07-2018, 12:44 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #104 (permalink)
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Is it necessary to remove all of the old paint?
Yes.
This is due to the age of air cooled 911s. Modern paint is not compatible with the solvent based systems of yesteryear. We see a lot of this in the form of paint flaking off, spider webs, and fish eyes in 10 year old paint jobs.
If you remove the labor, paint an materials is ~$3K depending on color. So if you can strip the car yourself, strip the paint, smooth the body, fix any imperfections, sand between each coat then reassemble the car you'll save that 200+ hours of labor cost.
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Old 03-07-2018, 12:46 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #105 (permalink)
49willard
 
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Originally Posted by LIRS6 View Post
Use the "post Reply" function instead of quick reply - you will find the blue upload bar there, if you scroll down a bit

Jason
Jason,
Thanks for your help. I think that I was doing the quick reply.
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Old 03-07-2018, 12:56 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #106 (permalink)
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i payed $800 before i shipped my 911 to Europe in 2009 for this paint job as a going away gift from my friend.
I did however took all the rubber off prior the paint...it is not perfect but good enough for me..almost 10 years later still ok..
Ivan
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Old 03-07-2018, 01:21 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #107 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Kontak View Post
Simply a contest but the term is understood as to intent wrt to paint.

Concours winning/placing car maybe is a better term?

FWIW............

Saw a 356 with that long chain engine at a Ft Worth gathering ten years ago. Black.

Probably the most flawless paint job I have ever seen.

Not a big deal but I asked the guy about it and he said he had it painted for $800 at a shop nearby his house. He was lying like a rug.

When you just blow off (politely) people that ask you about your paint job you are probably just tired of talking to people about your paint job. That's how good it was.
Concourse, in my understanding, is using sheetmetal tools instead on Bondo.

You spend many more hours working the metal, not smearing a gallon of body filler all over.
Old 03-07-2018, 04:36 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #108 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippy View Post
Concourse, in my understanding, is using sheetmetal tools instead on Bondo.

You spend many more hours working the metal, not smearing a gallon of body filler all over.
At least that is what it should look like.
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Old 03-07-2018, 08:12 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #109 (permalink)
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Strictly speaking a concours finish is one that replicated the original factory finish. To do that there must be no flaws in the underlying bodywork or paint, or trim. If you want to win. But it doesn’t necessarily mean the highest gloss finish. That would be a ‘show car’ paint job. There is a YouTube series on the guy from Ammo with his 964 that had a high dollar repaint - watch that for an idea of what goes into it.
Old 03-08-2018, 06:55 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #110 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coastr View Post
Strictly speaking a concours finish is one that replicated the original factory finish. To do that there must be no flaws in the underlying bodywork or paint, or trim. If you want to win. But it doesn’t necessarily mean the highest gloss finish. That would be a ‘show car’ paint job. There is a YouTube series on the guy from Ammo with his 964 that had a high dollar repaint - watch that for an idea of what goes into it.
A walk through a Porsche dealer shows that these days factory paint finish is clearly not perfect. I wonder if in the future concours cars from the current generation will need to replicate these imperfections...
Old 03-08-2018, 08:32 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #111 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by WP0ZZZ View Post
A walk through a Porsche dealer shows that these days factory paint finish is clearly not perfect. I wonder if in the future concours cars from the current generation will need to replicate these imperfections...
Saw a Mustang at show and it was painted with Glasurit. I did bother the guy with my questions and he said he had to leave a certain size patch of paint with the telegraph orange peel in it to meet certain rules for certain competitions. The rest of the car was hand blocked smooth except for a patch on one of the sail pans.
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Old 03-08-2018, 08:53 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #112 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Bob Kontak View Post
I did bother the guy with my questions and he said he had to leave a certain size patch of paint with the telegraph orange peel in it to meet certain rules for certain competitions.
I often feel like concours competitions should just be buckets with cash in them. Whichever bucket has the most cash wins.
Old 03-08-2018, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by WP0ZZZ View Post
A walk through a Porsche dealer shows that these days factory paint finish is clearly not perfect. I wonder if in the future concours cars from the current generation will need to replicate these imperfections...
Yea, some of these restorations can get out of control. I was in a Porsche dealership back in the day and there was a new 928 on display. The paint job was positively amateur looking. The metallic affect was uneven behind the door at eye level.

Then on the other side of the showroom was a Turbo. I was told that one of the fenders had to be repainted due to damage in shipment. I could not tell which side. The dealership did an amazing job matching the paint, which was also metallic.

What really annoys me is when painters will use two stage paint, by adding a clear coat on a vintage car that never had it originally. It just never looks right.

Supposedly Porsche used the best bodies for black. If you ever get a chance to see an originally painted 911 longhood in black the factory did a remarkable job.
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Old 03-08-2018, 09:15 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #114 (permalink)
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I went to 3 different places before I found a shop that was comfortable with terms like "single stage paint" and "no clearcoat". They matched it exceptionally well, and I am extremely happy with the results.
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Old 03-08-2018, 10:33 AM
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My understanding is that single stage metallic paints were notorious for oxidizing and just generally looking crappy after a few years...due to the exposure of the metal flakes to the sun and air (rust/oxidation which then affects the paint material itself.)

Single stage non-metallics do not suffer that affliction. Anyone know if this is true? Makes logical sense but I'm not sure. Agree totally that single-stage paints look more 'classic' than base+clear
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Old 03-08-2018, 11:58 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #116 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by universeman View Post
My understanding is that single stage metallic paints were notorious for oxidizing and just generally looking crappy after a few years...due to the exposure of the metal flakes to the sun and air (rust/oxidation which then affects the paint material itself.)

Single stage non-metallics do not suffer that affliction. Anyone know if this is true? Makes logical sense but I'm not sure. Agree totally that single-stage paints look more 'classic' than base+clear
Interesting question.

Porsche always used clear over their metallics. I don't know if they used Glasurit 21 line and then cleared over or used a different line base coat.

What the below link says is that single stage metallic is a shoot and you get what you get. Don't touch it or cut it as what will happen is what you said in your post. Bad things as the flakes become exposed to the elements. Most of the data in the link might be clustered in the 70's before SS with hardener came out but it would still be the same if hardener was used without clear coat.

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/single-stage-metallic-wtf.707602/
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Last edited by Bob Kontak; 03-08-2018 at 12:21 PM..
Old 03-08-2018, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by universeman View Post
My understanding is that single stage metallic paints were notorious for oxidizing and just generally looking crappy after a few years...due to the exposure of the metal flakes to the sun and air (rust/oxidation which then affects the paint material itself.)

Single stage non-metallics do not suffer that affliction. Anyone know if this is true? Makes logical sense but I'm not sure. Agree totally that single-stage paints look more 'classic' than base+clear
I'm not sure when Porsche started using clear coats over metallics. Probably sometime in the '70s. True one of the problems with the early metallics was oxidation. Clear coats solve this and the problem with over polishing the single stage metallics. The clear coats used now are poly urethane. This is a naturally UV resistant. I once painted a car in single stage metallic acrylic lacquer. I was able to polish it out with only one small area that went too deep.

Single stage non metallics can suffer as well. I painted a car of mine with single stage white enamel. It was hopelessly oxidzed after several years in the sun. Modern single stages are probably better. At least that is what the Dupont Representative told me.
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Last edited by Trackrash; 03-08-2018 at 05:04 PM..
Old 03-08-2018, 05:00 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #118 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 49willard View Post
Just to provide a different example. I am in the process of restoring my Mercedes 190SL. I did 100% of the disassembly, metal repairs, sandblasting, all body work and full prep for color. I did all of the final color except the outer and upper body, i.e. I took the the underside, wheel wells, engine bay, cabin and inside trunk all into final paint myself. I rolled it into the paint booth all prepped, washed down and masked. He shot the main body color and fully color sanded and multiple stage buff. My paint/body shop materials was about $2500. The painting labor cost was $1200 so I cannot say that I painted the car, only did 100% of the prep which is where the $ are. It was a rottisserie job. From sandblasting to buffed paint was just about a year.

Edit: I cannot seem to insert picture images from my personal photo files on my computer. When I tap on the "mountain picture" the only option is to post from a " http:// " source, not my files. I have posted pix in the past. What am I missing?
…. Good deal … and this is what I was talking about back on page 1 & 2 …. of course when you hand off the duties to someone else it gets costly no doubt about it … there is also the fact most of the meritocracy arrives to the shop in a 911 wearing their dockers and asks for a paint job and even if they do all the prep work themselves, the price is the same … high … now take this scenario … show up in jeans and work boots towing a 62 Ford Falcon with the same amount of prep work done to it and see what the price to paint that car will be …. saving a lot cause it's not a 911 …. - uncle dave
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Old 03-08-2018, 08:23 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #119 (permalink)
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I delivered my car to a paintshop with all parts removed ready for prep. No rust in the car but it needed sanding etc. This included bumpers and trim. It cost £4000 or $5500 . The finish is like Glass!


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Old 03-09-2018, 04:11 AM
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