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hawaiianvw67's Avatar
 
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Weight of the 911 2.0 6cyl.

Aloha,

How much heavier is the early 2.0 engine than a VW type 4 engine, if at all?

mahalo,
Joel

Old 02-21-2003, 04:06 AM
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I know that 2 people can pick up a 2.0. I have a 69T engine that my dad and my friend picked up to put in the back of my truck(with some straining). I'd guess they weigh about 120 or so. I'm not sure how much a type VI engine weighs but that might help you guess.
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Old 02-21-2003, 04:16 AM
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All 911 engines weigh remarkably the same...within sane limits...
You'e probably looking at closer to 400 lbs, according to the various spec books...

120 lbs?...no way...
--Wil Ferch
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Old 02-21-2003, 04:37 AM
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400? I know a 2.4 weighs that amount, I didn't think my 2.0 weighs that much. (shrugs) The specs are what you should go by.
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Old 02-21-2003, 04:40 AM
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Here are the weights of various 911 engines w/ source
  • kg lbs-- models-- Source
  • 182 400 2.4L E, S, RS 1972-73 Tech. Spec. book
  • 183 403 2.4L T 1972-73 Tech. Spec. book
  • 200 440 2.7L 1975-1977 Aichle - 911 Engines
  • 190 419 78-83 930/09,19,10 78-81 78-81 & 82-83 Tech Spec. book
  • 200 441 78-83 930/03-08,13-17 78-81 & 82-83 Tech Spec. book
  • 190 462 3.0L 1980-82 Aichle - 911 Engines
  • 219 483 84-87 930/20,26 84-87 Tech Spec. book
  • 220 485 84-87 930/21,25 84-87 Tech Spec. book
  • 219 482 3.2L 1987 - 1988 Aichle - 911 Engines
  • 238 524 964 89-94 M64/01,02 ROW &US 964 Tech Spec. book
  • 226 497 M64/03 RS 964 Tech Spec. book
  • 275 605 M30/69 3.3L 964 Tech Spec. book
  • 276 608 M64/50 3.6L 964 Tech Spec. book
  • 232 510 M64/05-08 993 Tech Spec. book
  • 221 487 M64/20 993RS v-ram w/o ZMS 993 Tech Spec. book
  • 230 507 M64/20 993RS v-ram w/ ZMS 993 Tech Spec. book
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Last edited by Bill Verburg; 02-22-2003 at 06:00 AM..
Old 02-21-2003, 05:24 AM
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Not to start a flame...but it's interesting that the oft-cited " low-tech, Chevy cast-iron lump" weighs about 450 lbs with aluminum heads. Of course, this isn't the fully dressed weight and does not include radiator and plumbing...whereas the Porsche values quoted are very likely *with* cooling fan/alternator, etc

Nonetheless...still an interesting comparo....

---Wil Ferch
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Old 02-21-2003, 05:33 AM
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All of those weights are installed but dry. You can even pick up on the differences in the dual mass f/w vs the normal and AC vs non AC if you look closely at the #S

Chevy V8 is still a water cooled engine and has no place in a 911 for that matter neither would a 996 engine.
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Old 02-21-2003, 05:47 AM
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I guess Aichle's idea of "dressed" is different from Porsche's. Maybe the Aichle numbers include the exhaust and Porsche doesn't?

It's be really useful to see the apples-to-apples weight differences attributable solely to changes in the longblock vs the added weight of fuel injection, heater blower, A/C, cats and other emissions crap, different muffler, premufflers, etc.
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Old 02-21-2003, 06:00 AM
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type IV's are 250 lbs.

Subaru flat fours are 299.

sjd
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Old 02-21-2003, 06:06 AM
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Bill:
You are absolutely right...all of us can debate the *appropriateness* of whether a Chevy SB should ever reside in a 911 until the cows come home ( see the heated other threads on this board)...but nonetheless..let's not short-change or malign the SB design...it's quite amazing. No wonder it and the 911 engine made Car & Driver's short list of "10 best" engines ever...
---Wil Ferch
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Old 02-21-2003, 07:37 AM
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Aloha,

Thank you for the replies. 400#s compared to 250#s is quite a difference. I'm asking to research what may work better in a 356 speedster replica or original 356 coupe.

Here's my general assumption regarding these two engines. They can both make close to 200 horsepower reliably, but once a person wants to go beyond 200, the Porsche stuff is what you need. For daily driver reliability. I don't doubt that someone could get more than 200 out of either, but for what purpose? I don't know.

Mahalos again,
Joel
Old 02-21-2003, 10:18 PM
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hawaiianvw67,
If you are talking about the 2 liter 6 it will be a bit heavier than the 2.4 liter engines which had magnesium crankcases. The first flat 6 to reach 200 reliable, streetable hp was the '73 2.7RS, the second was the '76 Carrera 3.0. I have yet to see that trick done w smaller engines. I had a 190hp '72 2.4S whch was barely reliable and barely streetable(I was trying to use it as a daily driver, it would certainly be far more acceptable as a second fun car)

Wil Ferch,
I think that the C5 Corvette engine is a marvel, I would love to have one in my garage, in a C5 chassis of course.

RallyJon,
Thats why I put the sources there, you can only compare #'s that have been harvested in a uniform, repeatable manner. I purposely left out the weights that I have collected from my various engine removals. The methodology was crude and certainly not repeatable. Aichle I am sure did not collect the data himself but is merely passing on what he was told.
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Old 02-22-2003, 05:12 AM
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Does the 3.6L realy weigh 200lb more than a 2.4(in the worst possible place on the car)? Does anyone have the tech spec weight on a 2.7, seems like it should be about the same or slightly less than a 2.4.
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Old 02-22-2003, 05:21 AM
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For transplant purposes the significant figures are
  • kg lbs-- models-- Source
  • 182 400 2.4L E, S, RS 1972-73 Tech. Spec. book
  • 183 403 2.4L T 1972-73 Tech. Spec. book
  • 190 419 78-83 930/09,19,10 78-81 78-81 & 82-83 Tech Spec. book
  • 200 441 78-83 930/03-08,13-17 78-81 & 82-83 Tech Spec. book
  • 219 483 84-87 930/20,26 84-87 Tech Spec. book
  • 220 485 84-87 930/21,25 84-87 Tech Spec. book
  • 226 497 M64/03 RS 964 Tech Spec. book
  • 221 487 M64/20 993RS v-ram w/o ZMS 993 Tech Spec. book

These are the #s to look at because they all use relatively similar flywheels. The later engines will be lightened considerably by the removeal of AC, cruise control, exhaust etc. I see ~100# difference between the lightest and heaviest in a worst case swap scenario. The 2.7 is a bit heavier than 2.4, mysteriously the weights are not in my copies of the Tech Spec books.
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Old 02-22-2003, 05:59 AM
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Porsche was able to get the wt. of the early 911 engine down to 286 lbs. for the 904 race car by using a lot of Ti and Mg, according to Ludvigsen.

But, my question is: doesn't it seem like the 911 engine design is unusually heavy -- even with all the alloy parts in the stock engine? Why is it so heavy? It can't all be in the wt. of the heat exchangers...
Old 03-26-2003, 10:18 AM
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Keep in mind that the opposed and air-cooled configuration results in each cylinder have separate sets of cooling fins, reinforcements on both the case and the heads, etc.

A V8 on the other hand has a lot of shared metal around the cylinders and between the V. Despite the crude reputation, the thin-wall casting technology of Detroit's V8's is pretty slick. For comparison check out how much a TR6 engine or MGB engine weighs. Surprisingly, they most likely weigh almost as much as a Chevy SB.

But it's not all roses, keep in mind that the 911 engine weight includes the entire cooling systems ready to run, but excludes the most of the oil. I get the impression the the SBV8 engine weights exclude the cooling system and all of the associated water.

Sure, 911 motors are not as light as you might think, but they'd be a heck of a lot heavier if they were built using the same materials and technologies as Detroit's iron.
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Old 03-26-2003, 01:33 PM
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The 100+ difference in some of the 3.6 weights makes me think there are inconsistencies in what was included (exhaust, etc...)
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Old 01-27-2004, 01:33 PM
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Charlie, if you weed out the turbos, as I did in the second list, you will see the weights as installed including what are in some cases unbelievably heavy flywheel/clutch packages, AC and heaters.

A typical swap will be
441# 78-83 930/03-08,13-17 78-81 & 82-83 w/ AC and heat to a 497# M64/03 RS 964 also w/ heat and AC, eliminate the stock exhausts , heat and AC and heavish oem f/w/clutch and you can save an easy 50#

another typical swap is
485# 84-87 930/21,25 84-87 to 487# M64/20 993RS v-ram w/o ZMS, again eliminate the stock exhaust/mufflers use a lighter fw/clutch and the 993 will be 10-20# lighter than the stock 3.2
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Old 01-27-2004, 02:12 PM
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BTW, if you put carbs, SSIs, and a light wt. starter on a 3.2L engine, it knocks about 30 lbs. off the wt. ...
Old 01-27-2004, 07:16 PM
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Are those published weights including the tranny?

Old 01-27-2004, 07:24 PM
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