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1981 911SC
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: San Francisco
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Brake job in 2 phases (R & F)- dumb?

Hi gang, first post here!! After 4 years of looking, I just picked up a new to me '81 SC with somewhere between 177k and infinity miles (broken ODO in 2001, elderly owner that let it sit for at least a few of those years). Pic below with my E30 5 speed sedan - which I'm planning to sell to finance 911 projects.

I'm planning on doing a brake job this weekend. Will replace rotors, soft lines, and rebuild all calipers (at least one is sticking).

My question is: Does it make any sense to do the job in two phases, starting with the rears, and tackle the fronts the next weekend? That would free up a little time for other urgent projects (some CIS sorting, lighting). I also only have two jack stands, so would save me buying two more for now.

If I R&R and bleed the rears, drive it for a week, and then do the fronts, will the whole system be effectively bled and flushed, or will I have to redo the rears anyway?

One more thing - is there anyone in the central LA area with a pressure bleeder they would be willing to loan for a weekend or two in exchange for a six pack?

Thanks in advance for the thoughts. I have already been loving reading this forum - amazing community and glad to be a part of it!


Last edited by kger; 03-30-2018 at 01:11 PM.. Reason: Move picture; Chg "defectively" to "effectively" bled
Old 03-30-2018, 09:36 AM
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Doing it in two sesions is not a problem. And if you change the brake fluid at the rear first than that's okay to. It doesn't travel around, it just moves a bit back and forwards.
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Old 03-30-2018, 10:15 AM
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Make sure you read the threads on this and follow the tip to slightly depress brake pedal before disconnecting lines to minimize fluid loss. Once you disconnect the line, plug the opening for additional protection against fluid loss. After you finish the first corner, go ahead and bleed. You'll only need to clear the air out of the new lines and caliper. Do this for each corner.

Note that to replace front rotors you will need to pull the hubs, so naturally this is a good time to replace front wheel bearings. Or at the very least you'll need to clean, inspect, and repack them.
Old 03-30-2018, 11:26 AM
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Yes, to do it in phases as you are thinking, is fine. And the slightly depressing the brake for the rear is a good idea.

But after finishing the front, I would highly recommend completely flushing the brake fluid anyway.
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Old 03-30-2018, 11:51 AM
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1981 911SC
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRSIII View Post
Note that to replace front rotors you will need to pull the hubs, so naturally this is a good time to replace front wheel bearings. Or at the very least you'll need to clean, inspect, and repack them.
Thanks for all of the tips, what took ya so long??

I think I'll do the fronts brakes and wheel bearings in weekend 2. Putting the bearing order in with our host now, and seems like you need: a) bearings inner and outer for each side (4 total) and b) seals.

Newb question again: Do the bearings come with the races, or do you have to purchase those separately? I see the removal/install of the bearings and races are separate steps, so are they sold separately? This is my first bearing foray.

Thanks again!
Old 03-30-2018, 12:50 PM
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The front wheel bearings come with the outer race as a set. However the outer race is not captured so is removable from the bearing.

The outer races will be a press fit into the hubs. Since the front hubs are aluminum, heat them in an oven to around 375* and the races should just about fall out. You need to be very careful when R&Ring the outer races as it is easy to damage the aluminum hubs.

There is a DIY article about this here. https://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/Porsche_911/SUSPEN-Front_Wheel_Bearing_Replacement/SUSPEN-Front_Wheel_Bearing_Replacement.htm
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Old 03-30-2018, 12:58 PM
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1981 911SC
 
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Thank you all!
Old 03-30-2018, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canada Kev View Post
But after finishing the front, I would highly recommend completely flushing the brake fluid anyway.
A couple of bleedings may be required. I know you are flushing as well but air can be a stinker. It hides. You need to jostle it by driving.

Your pedal should be rock hard when air is gone. I drove mine a long time with less than optimal until I got down with my bad self and got angry. Then I got the air out.
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Old 03-30-2018, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kger View Post
Newb question again: Do the bearings come with the races, or do you have to purchase those separately? I see the removal/install of the bearings and races are separate steps, so are they sold separately? This is my first bearing foray.

Thanks again!
Getting the old races outer races off can be quite a challenge from what I have read. IMO there is no need to replace them unless they are showing signs of wear. Twice now I have replaced the rotors without replacing the bearings.

Careful what you are getting yourself into.
Old 03-30-2018, 02:03 PM
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1981 911SC
 
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Originally Posted by old man neri View Post
Twice now I have replaced the rotors without replacing the bearings.

Careful what you are getting yourself into.
This is kind of what I'm thinking - I'll check the outer bearings and if they look OK and there's healthy grease, I'll assume the inners are decent too, throw em back on and see how many miles I can get out of them. Right now there are no signs of bad front bearings. It also seems like replacing the bearings is the hardest part of this combo job, so not really a quick n easy "while you're in there".
Old 03-30-2018, 02:13 PM
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I had no idea that front rotors on a 911 were such a major job.
Looks like I will have to take it to a shop when that time comes.
Hubs, bearings, races, pressing are all above my pay grade.
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Old 03-30-2018, 05:55 PM
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Something that is often missed when it comes to brake jobs is to make SURE that the brake pedal has a firm feel. This is the same when it comes to doing left or right first. Air in the system can cause a soft pdal.

If the car has air in the system it will NOT have brakes. Ask anyone who has worked in a garage about brakes and the pedal going to the floor.
Old 03-30-2018, 06:54 PM
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take the bimmer to harbor freight and buy two more jack stands. you can't drive, maintain, or call a 911 a project car with alligator arms...

it's a pain to flush rebuilt calipers and you will need all four corners in the air a couple times.
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Old 03-30-2018, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarwood View Post
I had no idea that front rotors on a 911 were such a major job.
Looks like I will have to take it to a shop when that time comes.
Hubs, bearings, races, pressing are all above my pay grade.
It's really not bad. You don't need a press. You take off the retaining nut, remove the assembly, unbolt the old rotor, bolt on new, replace assembly, and correctly torque the retaining nut.

I found the most annoying part of the front rotor is removing the front caliper without opening up a brake line.
Old 03-30-2018, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarwood View Post
I had no idea that front rotors on a 911 were such a major job.
Looks like I will have to take it to a shop when that time comes.
Hubs, bearings, races, pressing are all above my pay grade.
It's not. Front & Rear brakes (pads and discs), brake fluid change and changing the front wheel bearings is about a days work when you take your time. And you don't need a press to change the outer bearing races. You can tap them out and carefully tap them in. I use a tool like this to install them:

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Old 03-31-2018, 01:51 AM
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Oh and don't forget to order some new handbrake shoes.
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Old 03-31-2018, 01:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeRRis View Post
Oh and don't forget to order some new handbrake shoes.
How often do those wear out? I've never even considered replacing these.

And by the way, a pressure bleeder isn't really needed. I've had success with a gravity bleed, as I learned from the board.
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Old 03-31-2018, 05:36 AM
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How often do those wear out? I've never even considered replacing these.

And by the way, a pressure bleeder isn't really needed. I've had success with a gravity bleed, as I learned from the board.
They don 't wear out when they are properly adjusted. But the linings do crack over time because of the heat.
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Old 03-31-2018, 07:46 AM
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You are going to need a special tool to get the front bearing cap off without destroying it. Here is a thread on it
Removal of Dust Cap on Frt wheels bearings
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Old 03-31-2018, 08:37 AM
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I just knock off the cap with a brass hammer. Takes 10 seconds.

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Last edited by mepstein; 03-31-2018 at 11:37 AM..
Old 03-31-2018, 11:33 AM
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