adding turbos to a 3.2
 

I did a few searches on here but come up empty.

Has anyone ever setup a twin turbo on a 3.2? Anyone know of some links on a TT build?

I came across some article a few weeks back (in Panorama or Excellence I think)... about someone who did a twin turbo setup on a 3.2 and wondering if anyone here had done the same??


I'm not looking at doing this yet... but I might in a few years after I get my current resto/build finished.

I don't see the benefit of that on a 3.2 which is probably why you wont see many threads on it. More piping, more weight, more complications, and more cost for exactly what gain?

I seem to remember that someone was making a supercharger for the 3.2 (or perhaps the SC) back in the day. Might be an easier install if you’re committed to the modification.

You might call Chris at TuboKraft in Mesa, AZ
A few years ago I was able to drive one of his Turbo Boxsters - amazing torque

Turbo Kraft Porsche Parts and Custom Builds | Porsche Service Arizona

Regards,

The OP is asking about TWIN turbos.

Twins spool far sooner (turbine wheel much closer to exhaust valve) than large singles and in general, provide more CFM

Plus, the turbos would necessarily be much smaller and thus spool quicker. Unless one was planning sequential turbos which would indeed be silly to add to a 3.2.

Sequential yes, but compound turbos would be awesome!!!!

I have my old HX40 sitting on the shelf, and it's crossed my mind to stuff it full of the Borg S366 boost!!! :cool:

Why would two half-sized turbos, each connected to half the motor's exhaust outlets, spool up faster than a single turbo connected to all of them?

Mass and inertia. Think of how the original 930s were with that huge lag compared to more modern smaller engines with small turbos and their very low lag. Mind you, modern turbines have come a long way, but physics is physics. Or even old cars like a 959: small 2.8L engine and small turbos and as I understand not horrible lag, but still pretty high pressures.

Given the same amount of airflow, a larger turbo will take more to spin up than a small turbo, but in a twin turbo setup, aren't you using half the airflow per turbo (one for each three-cylinder bank)?

What's the size threshold at which two small turbos will be at desired boost faster than a single larger turbo, given the same total exhaust airflow and same pressure at the intake manifold(s)?

With two turbos you are not mixing up exhaust pulses. Twin scroll turbines serve the same purpose but many single turbo systems use regular single scroll turbine and that has noticeably worse transient response and boost treshold under otherwise equal conditions.

All about exhaust pulse energy. The turbine wheel is getting hit with hotter air closer to the exhaust valve.

The longer the distance, the slower the spool as the volume of air is compressing and getting colder the further away from the turbo.

I'd talk to Bisimoto Engineering.

Porsche 930 IROC Twin Turbo – Bisimoto Engineering

Not sure if it is a 3.2 but is definitely twin-spooled.

That thing has a 996 watercooled engine in it :p

Ruf did exactly this with their 1987 Yellow Bird, with great success. There is plenty of pictures and documentation on how Ruf built and set up their twin turbo based on the 911 Carrera 3.2L.

I had thought RUF did a little more than just slapping some turbos on it.... I had thought everything was custom designed and built specifically for their engine (turbos and all) and they even bored the engine out.


I was just curious if there was a tested setup with a couple turbos and engine management that someone had tested.

I've 'heard' that these 3.2 engines are capable of making 700+hp... but I'm not sure what all that involves.

I guess my point was that there is a cost per benefit, even a cost per HP. Whats the car going to used for, professional competition or street fun? I'm running a Precision single turbo on my 3.2 with stock compression and I can tell you there is very minimal lag and it spooks up quite nicely. Would a twin turbo setup deliver more performance? Maybe it would, but for a street car its fixing a problem that doesn't exist. Additionally it wouldn't make sense to build an over the top twin turbo monster and connect it to a stock 915 gearbox. I know the OP didnt say this was his plan but I think more information is really needed before deciding definitively which direction to take with the build. Dont build a motor around whats best, rather whats best for the specific need. A well tuned single turbo on a stock compression 3.2 is more than enough for most street applications, unless one plans on joining street outlaws. ;)

Single or twins all I can say is it’s a damn good time. I’d go with a smaller turbine than what I did if going single however, I have some good lag

It was Ruf. Of course they engineered the hell out of it. Built a special turbo tranny with an extra gear, and who knows all the other stuff. It was a 3.4 litre engine, but those pistons and barrels were likely available from Mahle. I read somewhere that the suspension wasn't even all that special. It was factory torsions and upgraded sways, or upgraded torsions and factory sways, one of those options. But I digress...

The engine itself? I have no idea, but it was likely a wee bit more than just slapping on a couple turbos and calling it good.

Twin turbos is not the way to go on these older flat 6 motors. What you want is a single TWIN SCROLL turbo.

I disagree. Eddie Bello made over 1100-1200whp with twin GT35R’s on a 3.6.

Would he have made the same with a 88-96mm turbo? Maybe, but they’re hard to spool when that big with our little motors.

Are you comparing a 75K build versus a guy wanting to add a couple turbos or a single turbo to an existing motor?

Your example is the fastest 964 probably on the planet. Wow. Let's talk about UGR Lamborghinis.

A single twin scroll turbo will get you most of the way to TT power levels with a tiny fraction of the expense.

IF your going to do it there is a set of 993 turbos, headers, and engine mount for sale right now pretty cheap. All ready fit to a 3.2 ... just need to get piece together the oil returns and intake and tune.

Doesn't a 3.2 need more than just a turbo slapped on? Stronger...internals? Lower compression or something? How much can you boost this thing and not have to rebuild it every 50k miles?

I'm stock in the land of smog checks, but I dare to dream...

So like, here's some threads...$3-5k for 300 whp seems pretty sweet, if motor longevity isn't compromised.

https://rennlist.com/forums/911-forum/667080-carrera-3-2-n-a-to-turbo-conversion-how-to.html

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/572663-i-want-turbo-my-3-2l-carrera.html

Very custom. Very involved. Very interesting.

I did it myself with all off the shelf parts, in my mom's garage. Nothing custom except for a oil like from the sender to the turbo, it made 320 hp at the wheel wheels on 0.5bar 7psi back then no turbo. I based it around Protomotive's learnings on boost levels and requirements and used their chip, RRFPR and change pipe. All up I think it cost me about 3K US.

It's run it like that since 2008, I did a rebuild months ago after a couple of leaks and some smoke, the engine had never been apart. All that was discovered was 2 valve guides that needed replacing. Everything else inside including piston and barrels looked new.

Remember the bottom end is pretty much the same as a 930, crank and conrods, the 3.2 benefits though with much better flowing heads and intake manifold. A 3.2 will make a lot more power at the same boost levels than a 930. I use a small ball bearing GT30R turbo.

The car is so much better to drive than a standard 3.2 IMO in every way, whereever a 3.2 has power it has it plus more, no compromises, it's night and day. I went down the path of changing mufflers, chips, headers, they really do very little, sounds is about all you achieve there. I have a stock and turbo 3.2 in my garage to remind me of life without power.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1523152253.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1523153350.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1523153350.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1523153350.jpg

Well hell. Does it weigh more than a stock 3.6...?

Man, this site is the opposite of Buddhism...Now I need to find a '75 car I can blow up...

Same here.... very similar setup as Spence. Precision turbo .5 bar with stock compression, Headers, outlaw muffler, web 20/21 grind cams and a MAF. Not sure about the weight of the 3.6 transplant cars. I only know they dont stand a chance. :D

I can get exact numbers on any weight added with my set up in a day or 2. All I can say, is all I added was a turbo, intercooler, blowoff valve, and wastegate.
Otherwise it’s stock. So I’d guess it’s maybe 60+-10 pounds I dk what a 3.6 weighs

Wow cool you’ve gone further than me! Yep a stock 3.6 conversion wouldn’t touch the power. Racing a friends 993 vario, it really wasn’t a race, by the top of 2nd gear the turbo 3.2 is ahead by about 5 car lengths. What I like the most is the torque and power lower in the rev range, you don’t have to rev them to make power when you have boost, the 3.2 is so ordinary NA below 4500rpm.

People tend to think that highly built 300 hp n/a is fast until they are reminded by some boosted but otherwise stock 911 :)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1523205738.jpg


Of course then there is this - the fully built 3.3 turbo. I built this motor for my turbo targa. Twin plug, giant twin scroll turbo, full width intercooler, CP rods and pistons, EFI, AEM Infinity, all the bells and whistles.

Approx 600HP in a 2600HP car. Should be nuts.

Can't wait to see when this project is done. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/pray.gif

Your craftsmanship aside, there are few cars sexier than a widebodied, non-tailed 911.

Agreed. Plus, 300hp and air conditioning...

Anyone can build a hot rod. It's tough to increase performance while keeping the balance of a daily driver.

Ive been side tracked by my water cooled turbos, though I'm doing a 71' build now so I haven't got the turbo project running. BUT a few thoughts.

Yes a Modern ceramic bearing twin scroll is likely the best bang for the buck.

Sure you can use 993 manifolds, but remember to flip the flanges. I am using NA 993 manifolds to put turbos near back corner.

I'm using GT28's with 996 IC's and the 3.2 intake with 3.2 heads on 3.3 P&C's.

With a hot rod, the final specs and outcomes are rated in more than pure performance numbers OR you'd never see a T bucket or a Harley built up. Its for the challenge, the cool factor and some times just for the "so it can't be done".

I'm still on fence of using a G50 or something different.

IF you want twins, then just plan to spend a little more. I see the limiting factor to be a factor of combustion chamber, heat dispersion and the problem with too much boost at low rpm's. These are all corrected for with water, but then you get the water pump and all that goes with it. Cheers

You didn’t mention expensive, hence my post.