Hi torque starter issue

[dave7320]

I have a 3.2 motronic mounted to a 915 in a 914-6. I got the car together last fall and put 2000 miles on it. Rebuilt the engine last winter due to a broken oil control ring and worn intake guides.
Here’s my issue, I have a hi torque lightweight starter. When I turn the key the starter spins but won’t engage the ring gear. I’ve bench tested it and it works fine. Pushes the gear forward and spins. Mounted it to the trans out of the car and it works. Can see the engagement pattern from last year on the ring gear. Flywheel , clutch , pressure plate , motor and trans are all the same.
Any ideas?

[Cory M]

Sounds obvious but make sure the wires are connected right. I had a similar issue when re-installing an engine and the wires were reversed.

[dave7320]

There are only 2 posts on the high torque. One hot and one for the solenoid

[T77911S]

does your flywheel have the bolt on ring with the teeth?
did you put it back on

[uwanna]

Originally Posted by T77911S

does your flywheel have the bolt on ring with the teeth?
did you put it back on

^^^ This may sound rediculous, but it has happened many times on this forum! LOL

[dave7320]

Yes. The ring gear is on.

[porschetub]

Originally Posted by dave7320

Yes. The ring gear is on.

There has been engagement issues with these,apparently the early ones were fine and the newer ones don't engage far enough,one guy I read about had torn out 2 ring-gears,are the bellhousing on the starters too thick on the mounting flange....I don't know.
All ring-gears should be induction hardened @ the teeth so if there is minimal engagement to me that's the only way this could happen, perhaps some careful measuring is required.
Running stock 4 cyl 914 starter and no issues yet.

[dave7320]

Originally Posted by porschetub

There has been engagement issues with these,apparently the early ones were fine and the newer ones don't engage far enough,one guy I read about had torn out 2 ring-gears,are the bellhousing on the starters too thick on the mounting flange....I don't know.
All ring-gears should be induction hardened @ the teeth so if there is minimal engagement to me that's the only way this could happen, perhaps some careful measuring is required.
Running stock 4 cyl 914 starter and no issues yet.

The funny thing is it worked last year. I didn’t know you could run a 914 starter on 915 gearbox.

[T77911S]

the starter gear may not be reaching the flywheel for some reason. is it installed properly.
is the engine bolted all the way up to the tranny.

the reason I ask is the only way the starter motor can turn is if the solenoid pulls all the way in. if it pulls all the way in it should be pushing the gear out and you say this is happening on the bench,

I have not dealt with the removable ring gear so I don't know, can it go on in a way so that the teeth are further away from the starter?

[dave7320]

Originally Posted by T77911S

the starter gear may not be reaching the flywheel for some reason. is it installed properly.
is the engine bolted all the way up to the tranny.

the reason I ask is the only way the starter motor can turn is if the solenoid pulls all the way in. if it pulls all the way in it should be pushing the gear out and you say this is happening on the bench,

I have not dealt with the removable ring gear so I don't know, can it go on in a way so that the teeth are further away from the starter?

I was thinking on the same lines. Everything is bolted tight. Took the trans down yesterday and checked the nose depth. You can flip the flywheel gear, but it would interfere with the nose of the starter. You can see the wear pattern from the last install. I have pics from last year it is installed the same way
It’s like it pushes the gear on the starter out on the bench test. But just spins without extending when installed in the trans. There 1/8” of clearance between ring gear and the drive gear when installed. There should be about 3/8” of tooth engagement when the solenoid is activated.
I was originally wondering if anyone had run into the solenoid not extending once installed with this model starter.

[T77911S]

I looked at a ring gear in the parts side. I did not think it could flipped but had to ask

based on the stock bosch starter:
the solenoid HAS to pull all the way in for the motor to run.
there is a metal bar on the end of the plunger that makes contact with the 2 lugs on the solenoid. this puts voltage to the motor. cant remember if the spring on the solenoid lets the plunger pull in without completely engaging the flywheel or if it is there to pull the gear back out.



I built a 914-6 back in the 90's with a 2.2e
I bet your car is a blast with a 3.2
the 914 was actually more fun than my 930.
I don't know if they are still around but I put a 911 dash in mine. they were made of fiberglass and covered in leaver. what a great dash because it could not crack.
this let me put the 911 instrument cluster in my car.

[dave7320]

Its a blast ! When it runs. I've double checked all my pics. It's installed the same way. I may give Hi Torque a call to see what they think.

[dave7320]

Thru the old 914 starter in and it works. Hill give hi torque a call to have it checked out. Time for the initial start of the rebuilt 3.2. Thanks for the feedback guys!

[KTL]

Did you compare the face "depth" of the two starters and how far out each one throws its pinion gear when you bench tested them? Just curious to know if there is a big difference. Must be a pretty big difference if the Hi Torque isn't even touching the ring gear enough to rub on it?

[dave7320]

Originally Posted by KTL

Did you compare the face "depth" of the two starters and how far out each one throws its pinion gear when you bench tested them? Just curious to know if there is a big difference. Must be a pretty big difference if the Hi Torque isn't even touching the ring gear enough to rub on it?

The depths are within 1mm of each other. When the high torque worked, it had about 80% ring gear tooth engagement.

[T77911S]

personally I don't see the need for hi torque. a good original bosch will work fine. just my opinion. I also don't think new ones are as good as the old ones.

I use the stock 914 starter in mine.

[dave7320]

Originally Posted by T77911S

personally I don't see the need for hi torque. a good original bosch will work fine. just my opinion. I also don't think new ones are as good as the old ones.

I use the stock 914 starter in mine.

I think the 3.2 can push the extra weight around!😉

[KTL]

OK I misunderstood what was going on. Sounds like the Hi Torque solenoid has an issue with throwing the pinion all the way out.

Is it an IMI brand or the eBay hiperformanceusa (HI PERFORMANCE OF AMERICA) brand? I'm not judging you. Just wondering which brand it is. I've had both and both seemed to work OK. One I sold and the other (previously used IMI) is still on the shelf yet to be used.

[uwanna]

Originally Posted by KTL

OK I misunderstood what was going on. Sounds like the Hi Torque solenoid has an issue with throwing the pinion all the way out.

Is it an IMI brand or the eBay hiperformanceusa (HI PERFORMANCE OF AMERICA) brand? I'm not judging you. Just wondering which brand it is. I've had both and both seemed to work OK. One I sold and the other (previously used IMI) is still on the shelf yet to be used.

I have had the Hi Performance unit on my 3.6 for 5yrs and never had a problem. I am wondering if perhaps the drive gear is extending properly,
but the one way Bendix drive gear is defective and just spinning and not locking up to turn the motor over. Just a thought.

[Cory M]

Originally Posted by T77911S

personally I don't see the need for hi torque. a good original bosch will work fine. just my opinion. I also don't think new ones are as good as the old ones.

I use the stock 914 starter in mine.

Stock works fine for most but the high-torque starters are significantly smaller and lighter. Because of the smaller size there is also a lot more access for tools to remove/install in the car too.