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Spiderman
 
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I Like My Euro's !

A last comment on Euro's. My set is in my opinion very nice looking and nicely made by appearance. Photo of the back side shows something about DOT and all the surfaces are nicely done, no weird of poorly filled cast radiuses, clean edges, all the ID marking are clearly visible in the casting, the machining is smooth, etc.. Can't imagine a cast wheel looking any better really. If you look carefully at the photo you can see that the hub-centric hole is slightly not centered in the material but that is typical I'd guess when trying to add accurate machined surfaces to a casting. I hear the Braids are lighter and use a "better" casting process but that cannot be easily viewed.

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Old 04-18-2018, 10:13 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #21 (permalink)
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That photo with a caption should be on Euromeister's front page. Very interesting. I'm concerned about weight and strength, but my car won't see nearly those kinds of forces. I might be content to seriously eyeball a set for cracks when they come off for tires if it saves $3,000 over a set of Fikse/Zuff, Linsey, etc.

Tires are still easy to find in 205/55-16 and 225/50-16, but move to 245/45-16 and wider and they disappear.
Old 04-18-2018, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VWLoosenuts View Post
are the fakes DOT approved?
Even if they were, it shouldn't mean much. DOT has some of the most lax, if any at all, regulations regarding wheels. TUV (German equivalent) is more stringent, but even a TUV-approved wheel isn't necessarily great.

IMO, the ban on cast replicas is sound. Keep in mind that the wheel design was optimized for the forging process. Simply copying the style and casting it is no good. Ideally the design is taken at face-value and entirely re-engineered for whatever the construction process is. If a manufacturer wants to be an exception, they should supply relevant documentation that proves their product is acceptable.

On the other hand, anyone driving hard on original Fuchs these days should really consider replacing them. Most Fuchs are old and fatigued by now. Otto Fuchs does produce them, new, in small batches. Nevertheless, 99% of the ones out there are original, i.e. at least thirty years old.

While Fuchs is a reputable company, keep in mind that they essentially pioneered the technology for the automotive industry at this time. The Fuchs design worked, but was likely not optimal. Otto Fuchs revised the design slightly once or twice. I have read they are currently revising the design for one of the original wheel sizes.

I personally wouldn't run a cast wheel on the track. But I also would be concerned with an original Fuchs. The forces and thermal cycles in a performance environment are very demanding.

In addition to all that, remember that tire technology has increased exponentially over the past few decades. Tires can generate far more lateral grip than those of yesteryear: those increased loads are transferred to the wheels.

FWIW, professional motorsports teams usually throw out wheels after one, sometimes two, seasons. If not, they typically have them X-rayed or an equivalent structural analysis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pampadori View Post
any other failures want to post? This is quite interesting as I never gave two thoughts about a wheel being prone to failure. I mean, it makes sense that forging alloy would result in a stronger metal but seeing the crack is something else.
Wheels break; they are really a wear item. Search for cracked wheel, or cracked Fuchs. The most magical of BBS wheels are not immune to cracking. Wheels, especially at the motorsport level, are designed to be a wear item (see above). High level motorsport wheels are typically optimized for weight at the cost of longevity. But those same motorsport teams also order them by the pallet!

FWIW, wheels do deflect, especially in a performance environment. You can usually see it if there is a suspension-cam on a track car.

In a performance environment wheels should be routinely checked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pampadori View Post
What if one was to cryo and shotpeen the wheels? Any benefit there?
I have read that some surface treatments can improve strength, but am not certain.
.

Last edited by FrenchToast; 04-18-2018 at 06:55 PM..
Old 04-18-2018, 06:21 PM
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Thank you. This discussion is very interesting to me. I may opt for the Euromeister wheels. 17x7 and 17x9. The look cool and the price is VERY reasonable. And now I'm going to add a new twist to this discussion, hoping someone can help me out:

The speedometer for this car is at the repair shop. If I choose the Euromeister 17x7 and 17x 9 wheel option, then is there a tire size that will result in the same rolling radius as the stock wheel and tire combo? Alternatively, I might need to have the speedometer guy calibrate the speedo differently from stock.

Thank you.
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Old 04-19-2018, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superman View Post
Thank you. This discussion is very interesting to me. I may opt for the Euromeister wheels. 17x7 and 17x9. The look cool and the price is VERY reasonable. And now I'm going to add a new twist to this discussion, hoping someone can help me out:

The speedometer for this car is at the repair shop. If I choose the Euromeister 17x7 and 17x 9 wheel option, then is there a tire size that will result in the same rolling radius as the stock wheel and tire combo? Alternatively, I might need to have the speedometer guy calibrate the speedo differently from stock.

Thank you.
Supes, the diameter of the tires should be 25 inches when using the 16 inch wheels. So if you chose 17 inch tires within the 25 inch diameter or tire height, you should be okay. I have Euro's too, 17x7 front with 215/45/17 and 17x9 with 255/40/17. Others have 225/40/17's on front. These tires are within the 25 inch diameter for the tire height and you should not have any issues with you speedometer.
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Old 04-19-2018, 06:50 AM
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This should help.
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Old 04-19-2018, 06:58 AM
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Both of my 17" sets with different brand tires (same size rears as Ipsalsaman) result in speedometer readings very close to accurate compared to my phone/GPS numbers. I would not recommend attempting to dial in the speedometer to correct. Now my 15" set is waaaay off because of the tires but its only for track use.
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Last edited by Jesse16; 04-19-2018 at 07:36 AM..
Old 04-19-2018, 07:30 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc Hunter View Post



So any cast wheel is ok, except an imitation ****s alloy? What sense does that make at all? There are a ton of really unsafe cast wheels out there that are not imitation Fuchs. I know, I have broken a few, including a pressure cast TSW, at a track day. That is wild.
I broke a Fuchs wheel back in 2009... didn't take much, either.

Not a replica.

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Old 04-19-2018, 11:30 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #28 (permalink)
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Thanks, everybody. VERY helpful. I called the local tire shop and learned that the 255/40x17 tire should be nearly identical diameter compared to stock. I told the speedo guy to fix (as stock) and ship my speedo.

Very interesting about the front tire options. I will just need to see what's available. Another guy has suggested 205/50x17 front and 255/40x17 rear, but that seems like the same ol' tire on the front with MUCH wider rears. These cars push like crazy at autocross, so I think it would be nice to have a little more meat up front. Ipsalsaman suggests some alternatives, which is welcome.
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Old 04-19-2018, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superman View Post
Thanks, everybody. VERY helpful. I called the local tire shop and learned that the 255/40x17 tire should be nearly identical diameter compared to stock. I told the speedo guy to fix (as stock) and ship my speedo.

Very interesting about the front tire options. I will just need to see what's available. Another guy has suggested 205/50x17 front and 255/40x17 rear, but that seems like the same ol' tire on the front with MUCH wider rears. These cars push like crazy at autocross, so I think it would be nice to have a little more meat up front. Ipsalsaman suggests some alternatives, which is welcome.
Supe's, when I got my Euro's I thought the same as you but then I went middle of road with the 215's instead of the 225's; in order to avoid possible issues with rubbing. Although most have reported no issues with them, I did not wanted to take any changes. My front fenders already had their inner lips rolled a bit so it helped. Anyway good luck and hope to see the ride with the wheels/tires on!
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Old 04-19-2018, 05:54 PM
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Thanks. She's a beauty. Mocha with black trim.

I might be getting wheels largely for the aesthetic. I'm old enough to prefer 'deep dish' wheels on a performance car. Strongly prefer. She's going to look really nice.
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Old 04-19-2018, 07:31 PM
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Hey, nice marmot.
 
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I know youíre asking about Euromeisters but here is another option.

Pelican also sells Linea Corse fuchs. They are sold as a set of 4 (as opposed to buying individually for the Euromeisters). They may have other sizes available but I bought 17x7.5 and 9. Iím running 225/45 in front and 255/40 rear. Fenders were rolled before I had these wheels.

Previously I had 16x6/7 original Fuchs with spacers. This is a much better setup.

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Old 04-19-2018, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tirwin View Post
I know youíre asking about Euromeisters but here is another option.

Pelican also sells Linea Corse fuchs. They are sold as a set of 4 (as opposed to buying individually for the Euromeisters). They may have other sizes available but I bought 17x7.5 and 9. Iím running 225/45 in front and 255/40 rear. Fenders were rolled before I had these wheels.

Previously I had 16x6/7 original Fuchs with spacers. This is a much better setup.

Love the RSR finish. Did they come that way? I'm going to refinish my brand new black centered Maxilites in RSR style.
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Old 04-19-2018, 07:46 PM
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Hey, nice marmot.
 
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Originally Posted by madcorgi View Post
Love the RSR finish. Did they come that way? I'm going to refinish my brand new black centered Maxilites in RSR style.
Yes, that is a finish option. It’s a great look, but I’m biased.

My old Fuchs were polished. Looks great but a PITA to keep clean. These wheels are super easy as far as maintenance.
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Old 04-19-2018, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tirwin View Post
Yes, that is a finish option. Itís a great look, but Iím biased.

My old Fuchs were polished. Looks great but a PITA to keep clean. These wheels are super easy as far as maintenance.
Looks great. I vaguely remember seeing those, but went with the Maxilites, which are very nice. Now I'm debating whether to blast the whole wheel, then mask the petals and the rim off and paint the black parts, or try to just tape off the black part and blast the petals.

I also like Magnus Walker's way of doing these, where he adds a polished lip. Looks great.
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Old 04-19-2018, 08:22 PM
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This remains my favorite tire size calculator:

https://tiresize.com/calculator/

Nice visuals, and instant confirmation as to whether or not there are tires you can actually buy in the selected size.
Old 04-19-2018, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superman View Post
Thanks, everybody. VERY helpful. I called the local tire shop and learned that the 255/40x17 tire should be nearly identical diameter compared to stock. I told the speedo guy to fix (as stock) and ship my speedo.

Very interesting about the front tire options. I will just need to see what's available. Another guy has suggested 205/50x17 front and 255/40x17 rear, but that seems like the same ol' tire on the front with MUCH wider rears. These cars push like crazy at autocross, so I think it would be nice to have a little more meat up front. Ipsalsaman suggests some alternatives, which is welcome.
I would run 225s in the front. 50 mm of difference front/rear would be a bit much if you're really trying to balance the handling. For a typical street car, it doesn't really matter, but I couldn't dial out my understeer in the front until I went to 245s.

For what it's worth, here are my Fuchs replicas. 8 and 9x17 HRE replicas. These tires are 225s/255s, but honestly the 225s in front look too narrow for my taste. I should have stuck with the 245/275s I was running on these wheels...

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Old 04-20-2018, 02:49 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #37 (permalink)
Hey, nice marmot.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tremelune View Post
This remains my favorite tire size calculator:

https://tiresize.com/calculator/

Nice visuals, and instant confirmation as to whether or not there are tires you can actually buy in the selected size.
This one is handy too.

https://www.wheel-size.com/calc/
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Old 04-20-2018, 03:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superman View Post
Thanks, everybody. VERY helpful. I called the local tire shop and learned that the 255/40x17 tire should be nearly identical diameter compared to stock. I told the speedo guy to fix (as stock) and ship my speedo.

Very interesting about the front tire options. I will just need to see what's available. Another guy has suggested 205/50x17 front and 255/40x17 rear, but that seems like the same ol' tire on the front with MUCH wider rears. These cars push like crazy at autocross, so I think it would be nice to have a little more meat up front. Ipsalsaman suggests some alternatives, which is welcome.
Be very careful here

The # that correlates best to speedometer is revolutions per mile, you will have to do some research here and some companies do no publish this info but it is the most accurate assessment of the tires effect on bothe gearing and speedo.

A typical 225/50 x16 mounted on an 8(yes the wheel a given tire is mounted on does make a small difference) has an rpm of 836 to 853. yet the tire ODs are all 24.7 to 24.9"

A typical 255/40 x17 on a 9 will have an rpm of 809 to 839, w/ an OD 24.9 to 25.2"

yes there is some overlap but you really need to look at specific tires.

There's a similar range of weights,

there are 2 effects to keep in mind wrt tire choice
1) there is an inertial cost for each extra #, it is usually relatively small ~1-2 lb-ft per tire but is exacerbated by tire rpm increase which can be far more significant
2) there is a gearing cost for each extra mm of drive tire OD, when added to the inertial cost it can be significant, for one set of 255/40 to 255/40 that I did there was a 9-10lb-ft delta per axle

If you don't absolutely need the grip of a 255/40 x17 you can save a lot on these costs by going to a 245/40 x17 this could save over 10lb-ft per axle compared to a typical 255/40. The main reason is these tires are short, comparable to a 245/45 x16 a 225/45 front is a good match for either 245/40 or 255/40 rear
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Old 04-20-2018, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IROC View Post
I would run 225s in the front. 50 mm of difference front/rear would be a bit much if you're really trying to balance the handling. For a typical street car, it doesn't really matter, but I couldn't dial out my understeer in the front until I went to 245s.

For what it's worth, here are my Fuchs replicas. 8 and 9x17 HRE replicas. These tires are 225s/255s, but honestly the 225s in front look too narrow for my taste. I should have stuck with the 245/275s I was running on these wheels...

The delta wanted between front and rear depends more on the engine torque than any thing else

in a fairly low powered car delta of zero is fine but as the power goes up the delta needs to go up too. Of course there are other influencing factors such such as suspension, tire characteristics, weights, usage and driver preferences.

Most street 964s that came w/ 17 used 225/45 & 255/40, while the Cups ran 235/45 & 255/40 & the 3.8RS run 235/45 & 285/30 & RSr ran 245/35 & 280/30
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Old 04-20-2018, 03:28 PM
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