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CIS Guages - Are these any good?

Hi everyone,

Day 02 with my '79 SC and we're getting to know one another well. Other than finding my way around her here is my first issue:

Cold start she fires up fine, idles to about 2000rpm for a couple of minutes and off we go. First stop sign she dies. Fire her up again, off we go. Second stop sign she dies again. After about 5-10mins there is no problem and idles nicely at around 950rpm when stopped.

I've been reading through the forums and looks like I have a CIS issue on my hands (whatever that is.... learning as I go). So I have lots of reading ahead of me and Pelican and its community are proving absolutely awesome in all your help.

I understand a first check would be my fuel pressure so time to invest in some gauges. Before I do so could you guys let me know if these will do the job:

01: http://a.co/659QbQ0
02: http://a.co/9s6V5fQ
03: http://a.co/bbM9PSO

thanks!
dK

Last edited by thefaculty; 05-16-2018 at 06:55 PM..
Old 05-16-2018, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Day 02 with my '79 SC
Sheesh, what's happened to this board? Pics man, pics! Everyone likes pictures...

Seem to recall I bought the CIS tester from our host, long time ago, after running a CIS car for years: https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/TOLSGT33865.htm?pn=TOL-SGT-33865&SVSVSI=787

Used it precisely once and sold it on a few years later...

Pretty likely any of the ones you linked would work too. You really don't need much; just adapters to connect the gauge to your fittings, a bypass valve to read the system pressure, then check the cold and hot pressures as controlled by the WUR.

But you may not even need one, because it sounds like it runs fine once warm. Which points to the warmup cycle on the WUR (Warm Up Regulator - a complete misnomer, because that's only part of what it does) not doing what it should.

This is a little alu box with a little tower on top at one end with some fuel banjos bolted on it, located on top of the motor (try tracing fuel lines from the fuel distributor, fuel filter/accumulator that don't go to the injectors - you'll find it). It also has an electrical connector.

Check is that the plug side of the connector is powered with the ignition on. If it isn't, that could be the problem. Motor runs fine after a while because the WUR leeches the heat from the motor block itself. But the block will take (much) longer to impart any heat to the WUR than the internal heating coil would do it. And all the time the WUR is colder than it should be, the mixture isn't correct (CCP too low == too rich).

If the plug is powered with ignition on, use a multi-meter to check the resistance across the pins in the socket; the internal heater coil wrapped around the bi-metallic strip that adjusts the mixture can go out of spec - or break completely. Open or shorted is bad - something like 28-30 ohms is probably ball-park/fine, but there's a few CIS gurus who can tell you the exact correct spec if you provide the WUR and engine type #

I'd start there; easy to check and seems to fit the symptoms.

2000 also sounds kind of obnoxiously high for cold idle; but that may be correct for an SC. At least it drops when hot, so you know the AAR (auxiliary air regulator) seems to be working fine.

Good luck!
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Old 05-17-2018, 12:37 AM
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In this photo is the CIS pressure test kit that I purchased - as recommended by a CIS guru - Tony. It is S & G Tool Aid #33800. You can find it for about $90 US

As well are publications relating to CIS that I found.

BTW, 2000 RPM on start-up is what my '79SC typically reaches



Jason
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Last edited by LIRS6; 05-17-2018 at 05:15 AM..
Old 05-17-2018, 05:10 AM
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Brilliant! Thank you both. Yes - sorry for the pictures posting I actually did post pics of all 3 but I am finding the forums do not always work in displaying them so far. I'm following guides but no luck on this post I'm afraid. Thanks so much for the info though. I'll order one of your recon for sure instead of chancing it.

Cheers guys!!
dK
Old 05-17-2018, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spuggy View Post
This is a little alu box with a little tower on top at one end with some fuel banjos bolted on it, located on top of the motor (try tracing fuel lines from the fuel distributor, fuel filter/accumulator that don't go to the injectors - you'll find it). It also has an electrical connector.

Check is that the plug side of the connector is powered with the ignition on. If it isn't, that could be the problem. Motor runs fine after a while because the WUR leeches the heat from the motor block itself. But the block will take (much) longer to impart any heat to the WUR than the internal heating coil would do it. And all the time the WUR is colder than it should be, the mixture isn't correct (CCP too low == too rich).

If the plug is powered with ignition on, use a multi-meter to check the resistance across the pins in the socket; the internal heater coil wrapped around the bi-metallic strip that adjusts the mixture can go out of spec - or break completely. Open or shorted is bad - something like 28-30 ohms is probably ball-park/fine, but there's a few CIS gurus who can tell you the exact correct spec if you provide the WUR and engine type #

I'd start there; easy to check and seems to fit the symptoms.

2000 also sounds kind of obnoxiously high for cold idle; but that may be correct for an SC. At least it drops when hot, so you know the AAR (auxiliary air regulator) seems to be working fine.

Good luck!
Thanks so much for this - I just had some time to read it in full and I will follow all your advice here and report back. Really grateful to you! Thanks Spuggy!
Old 05-17-2018, 12:43 PM
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I have access to the tech instruction book electronically.

The Probst book is a profoundly powerful learning tool.
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Old 05-17-2018, 01:01 PM
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I have the exact same gauges as pictured by LIRS6. I've owned 3 CIS cars and the gauges work great
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Old 05-17-2018, 06:20 PM
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These guages:

Quote:
Originally Posted by thefaculty View Post
Before I do so could you guys let me know if these will do the job:

01: http://a.co/659QbQ0
02: http://a.co/9s6V5fQ
03: http://a.co/bbM9PSO

thanks!
dK
I have the set in the first link. Everything you need is included with that set, as well as a lot of stuff you don't need. It has connectors for all types of cars, but you only need two of them - one to connect to the fuel distributor and one to connect to the WUR.

The photos below show the connectors needed. You'll need to use either the original crush washers or the plastic ones included in the kit. And check carefully for leaks, both while testing and especially when you connect things back up when you're done.






Old 05-18-2018, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spuggy View Post
Check is that the plug side of the connector is powered with the ignition on.
Hi Spuggy - I feel very dumb asking this but how would I check that the plug side of the connector is powered. I have found the WUR and can easily see the electrical plug but I cannot figure out how to disconnect it.

This comes with a thousand thanks!!
Old 05-18-2018, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thefaculty View Post
...................and can easily see the electrical plug but I cannot figure out how to disconnect it.
I don't know if there is a simple way to dislodge the c-clip wire thingie in with your fingers.

I have always used a scriber or a scriber with a 90 degree bend on the tip to pull the clip off.

It will fly so have your other hand there or a rag stuffed around it to capture when it pops out.

I'll bet I have been doing it wrong for decades. Let others comment before performing procedure.
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Old 05-18-2018, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thefaculty View Post
Brilliant! Thank you both. Yes - sorry for the pictures posting I actually did post pics of all 3 but I am finding the forums do not always work in displaying them so far. I'm following guides but no luck on this post I'm afraid. Thanks so much for the info though. I'll order one of your recon for sure instead of chancing it.

Cheers guys!!
dK
No, no, no....

We want pictures of THE CAR!!!!!

As some would say, “THIS...”
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Old 05-18-2018, 02:32 PM
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Lets try this:::
Old 05-18-2018, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Kontak View Post
It will fly so have your other hand there or a rag stuffed around it to capture when it pops out.
Thanks Bob. That's what I was worried about. I can get the clip off I think but I was actually more worried about how I would get it back on again once off. I'm always trying to remember not only do I have to take something apart but I also need to return it to it's original (if not improved) state!!
Old 05-18-2018, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thefaculty View Post
Thanks Bob. That's what I was worried about. I can get the clip off I think but I was actually more worried about how I would get it back on again once off. I'm always trying to remember not only do I have to take something apart but I also need to return it to it's original (if not improved) state!!
Put the clip back on when it's off the WUR. It will snap back on with pressure.
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Old 05-18-2018, 02:57 PM
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