Bought a 79 SC...now what do I do?

[wareaglescott]

Thread title is sort of a joke...sort of.

I recently purchased a 79 SC with intentions of making it my next car project.

A little about me:

I enjoy working on cars but am not overly experienced. I have a lot of free time from my work and a desire to learn more about P-cars. I do have a decent mechanical aptitude to dig in and figure things out. My current garage consists of a 2012 F150, 2018 911 C2S and a Factory Five MK4 (Cobra Kit) that I built from scratch and now the '79 SC. The Cobra was my first real car project. Previous to building that my automotive experience was limited to changing my oil 25 years ago in high school. The Cobra turned out very nice and has received some nice recognition. The kit appealed to me because I was starting with all new parts and an instruction manual.

I found after completing the Cobra I missed having something to work on. I have always loved 911s but never had the opportunity to own one until earlier this year. I absolutely love the 2018 C2s. Both the new 911 and Cobra are quite fast and my professional career requires a good driving record so I enjoy getting up to the speed limit +10 quickly but am not a real speed demon after that. Travel for a living and like to be home when I am off so don't really have a desire to travel to track days on my off time. All my cars are just street driven. Honestly the 2 newer cars are at get in trouble speed at the end of 2nd gear. That is what brought me to the classic 911. I wanted something that I could drive a little harder and maintain a reasonable speed and I also wanted something I could work on as a project to increase my knowledge level and experience working on cars. I am a big user of forums and feel this place will be a great asset to learn a lot.

A little about the car:
1979 911 SC. 172,000 miles. Non modified original condition for the most part. Great driver quality car. Leakdown and compression tests were pretty good. Minimal oil drips. Top end has been done in the past but records are limited. AC works. Interior is in very nice condition. Doesn't appear to be any previous major damage or rust. Paint in nice condition but I plan on a color change anyways. Bought from a forum member and feel like I got a fair price. The car was originally brown. At some point they did a glass out repaint but you can still see the brown in the engine compartment so it is not totally original.

Project goals:
Most of my research on these cars up to this point has dealt with buying a decent project starting point. I feel I accomplished that but I don't have much additional knowledge. My plan is to drive the car over the summer while I come up with a game plan on exactly what I want to do and in what order I want to do it. That is where I need some education and help. Basically I would like to take the car all the way down to the shell and rebuild/ refurbish whatever needs to be done. Budget wise I am willing to spend up to another 60k. I am more concerned with the outcome I desire than the value of the car at the end vs what I put into it. It would be nice if I don't get killed when I sell it but understand with toys like this that tends to happen. I plan do to as much work as I possibly can myself. I have some friends that own a body shop that will be teaching me the paint and body work. I will be working with them and paying them for their advisory and instruction time but will be doing most the labor myself. For the engine I don't need a ton of horsepower. Im thinking a good running motor with 225ish HP will suit me just fine. I will take the motor in and out myself but may leave the heavy rebuild work to a professional. Need to learn more on that.

To sum it up I want an aesthetically pleasing, mechanically sound, decent performing classic 911.

The point of this thread:
Just trying to start to organize a game plan and best way to go about this. Input to any or all of the following questions will be much appreciated. I realize this is a very broad topic for one post so if you are willing to take one question and give some good info then I hope collectively I can gather a bunch of good data in this thread.

1. Motor - still has the functioning smog equipment - other than removing that what is a good way to arrive at a reliable 225ish hp package? I am pretty much planning on a full rebuild considering its current mileage

2- order of operation - Is is wise to tackle one area at a time, say suspension, then electrical, then drivetrain? or what is a good order to go about doing things.

3- At what point in the process is it best to do paint and body work?

4 - I am trying to decide what I want the final look to be. I for sure want to get rid of the impact bumpers. Cant decide to do a long hood conversion or add some other front and rear alternative. 50/50 on welding on wider flares for wider tires. I like either a duck tail or nothing on the rear deck lid. What are some popular vendors for replacement parts?

5 - what have people found to be the most difficult part of redoing these cars or what was something that was surprisingly difficult?

Thanks for any input. Here is a pic of the car and the other 2.
Scott

EDIT - I should also add I don't need this car to remain drivable during the process. I can do projects incrementally or completely blow it apart and rebuild. Trying to determine the best course of action in regards to that as well.

[rwest]

Nice looking cars and garage.

Removing the air pump and thermal reactors might be a good first step as the extra heat can wreck your exhaust valves.

Brakes and suspension good?

[RDM]

Scott,

Welcome. You've written a very good introduction both to you and your car. It sounds like you've bought a very good starting point; I wouldn't be in a hurry to change things!

Given your experience and willingness to work the forum, you will find anything too exotic with your SC. I've had 240Zs, a Saab, a V-6 German Capri and a few older 911s, and that was preparation enough. With your experience, you'll do fine.

I've done the heater backdate, 964 cams and SSIs, which all help, as does an extended hub steering wheel and JWest shifter. I've also been through the suspension, with new stock bushings and rebuilt shocks/struts. My goal is enjoyable, responsive driving, not ultimate speed, as I'd like to keep my license and most of my driving is on two-lane village-to-village roads..

The next step for me will probably be the dreaded/delighted EFI/ITB conversion. The CIS system seems to be a tuning bottleneck, as well as a 40-year-old mechanical system with many moving parts, so that may be your next step as well if more power is your goal. Of course JE 9.5:1 pistons wouldn't hurt your cause....

As far as flares the SC is not under-tired. It doesn't weigh much and wider wheels will fit under the existing flares if you feel the need for them. Obviously others disagree as there's a market for RSR/Turbo flares, but one of the things that makes this car enjoyable is the feedback at normal speeds, which I think wider wheels and tires work against.

My suggestion, which is not really my suggestion but common forum advice, is to drive the car for awhile and see what you'd like to change first (if anything).

I look forward to the journey with you!

[wareaglescott]

Originally Posted by rwest

Nice looking cars and garage.

Removing the air pump and thermal reactors might be a good first step as the extra heat can wreck your exhaust valves.

Brakes and suspension good?

Thanks.
I have about 100 miles on the car. Brakes and suspension seem fine. Only driven 3 other 911s in the 78-80 range so it is hard to know much and what would be considered good and not good. This one is surprisingly nice to drive. Still need to evaluate everything more in depth as I have only had the car about 10 days and been out of town half that time.
Mechanically I will definitely be giving these areas attention when I tear it all apart.

Are the stock brakes good when they are in proper operating condition? Is there a popular upgrade I should look into? What about popular suspension mods?

[wareaglescott]

Originally Posted by RDM

Scott,

Welcome. You've written a very good introduction both to you and your car. It sounds like you've bought a very good starting point; I wouldn't be in a hurry to change things!

Given your experience and willingness to work the forum, you will find anything too exotic with your SC. I've had 240Zs, a Saab, a V-6 German Capri and a few older 911s, and that was preparation enough. With your experience, you'll do fine.

I've done the heater backdate, 964 cams and SSIs, which all help, as does an extended hub steering wheel and JWest shifter. I've also been through the suspension, with new stock bushings and rebuilt shocks/struts. My goal is enjoyable, responsive driving, not ultimate speed, as I'd like to keep my license and most of my driving is on two-lane village-to-village roads..

The next step for me will probably be the dreaded/delighted EFI/ITB conversion. The CIS system seems to be a tuning bottleneck, as well as a 40-year-old mechanical system with many moving parts, so that may be your next step as well if more power is your goal. Of course JE 9.5:1 pistons wouldn't hurt your cause....

As far as flares the SC is not under-tired. It doesn't weigh much and wider wheels will fit under the existing flares if you feel the need for them. Obviously others disagree as there's a market for RSR/Turbo flares, but one of the things that makes this car enjoyable is the feedback at normal speeds, which I think wider wheels and tires work against.

My suggestion, which is not really my suggestion but common forum advice, is to drive the car for awhile and see what you'd like to change first (if anything).

I look forward to the journey with you!

Good info thanks.
Will research those items you mention more.

Good point on the flares. I think I could be happy with the stock SC flares if I found the right bumpers to compliment them. Anyone have suggestions on particular bumpers that are known to be good quality and decent fit?

[rwest]

911 brakes in stock form are plenty good for standard horsepower and street use.

Lots of people upgrade the torsion bars to make it stiffer. Elephant Racing rubber bushings are a good upgrade if you want a good factory new type of ride and your old ones have gone bad.

Upgrading to EFI like RDM has suggested can be good and with your model, there is a kit that uses some of the factory intake parts and can be done for a couple thousand. It is called Bitz. There are many other types including using independent throttle bodies and have electronic ignition as well, but start going over $5,000.

[Bob Kontak]

Ha. I read your first post and thought you were talking about a Mustang.

OK. You have a wee bit of coin that offers options and your 911 has not been sodomized from appearance. (sweet)

I would say 3.2 Mahle (CIS) pistons with 9.5/9.7 or thereabouts compression ratio. Also add a 964 cam grind or the like. You need to have a CIS grind. Other, non CIS, fat cams will cause the air sensor plate to fluctuate and it will not be docile.

The old US SC's breathe better than later SC's. Leverage on this. (Heads/intake runners)

225 is a lot of HP from 172 flywheel now. These two things may not get you all the way to 225 but it will be awful peppy.

Other stuff like the $3,000 exhaust system can be added later.

[Trackrash]

Yes, these cars are surprisingly well balanced originally.

I doubt you will need to upgrade the brakes, unless you are going to add a lot of power AND drive on the race track.

Without tearing into the motor the best bang for the buck is to get rid of the smog stuff and backdate the exhaust.

After that good shocks and bushings will go a long way to have a great running car.

There are a couple of books that have much information about all the mods that can be done. Wayne's How to rebuild 911 Motors and Bruce Anderson's Porsche 911 Performance Handbook. Both books are available here https://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/PEL_search_2016.cgi?command=DWsearch&description=911+books
They detail everything from stock, mild upgrades, to wild.

A workshop manual is also something you will want if you are doing your own work. 911s are easy to work on, IF you fully understand all of their idiosyncrasies.

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by rwest

Nice looking cars and garage.

Removing the air pump and thermal reactors might be a good first step as the extra heat can wreck your exhaust valves.

Brakes and suspension good?

SC's don't have thermal reactors.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by Trackrash

Without tearing into the motor the best bang for the buck is to get rid of the smog stuff and backdate the exhaust.

If he gets rid of the smog stuff and backdates the exhaust it will make some difference.

Stones come from compression and the 79 is surprisingly anemic even though still a runner.

Lots left on the table for a potential fire breather street car still in the non-silly range.

Just saying. Not arguing.

There is a lot to be said for driving it like it is.

[wareaglescott]

This is great info so far. Thanks for everyones thoughts.

Some of these posts I will have to interpret the terminology down to my basic understanding but I will get there! Starting a file broken down by major system and will list all these suggestions by subject and research.
Keep them coming please and I am sure I will have many more questions!

Also I have bought the Bentley shop manual and the other books mentioned above.

[blucille]

I’ve owned a few 78-79 SC’s and several cars with these big port motors.

You will feel a significant improvement by “back-dating” the exhaust, switching over to heat exchangers that don’t have the cross-over pipe and cat that your SC has. An improved muffler will make it sound faster, and might add a few more HP, I personally like m&k, because it will lighten the rear end by more than a few pounds......

After that, 964 cams go a long way.

My greatest successes have been when combining some better breathing on these motors with removing some weight, especially from the rear.

Good luck, enjoy the journey. Drive the car.

[chrisbalich]

having also recently started a project based on a 79SC, i am in the camp of drive it and start where you feel it lacks. (something i am not currently able to do) incremental projects are much more rewarding than projects where you blow it all apart, build everything, and then it's done. sure, the car comes out amazing...and that amazing car is less likely to leave you on the side of the road. but for me, there is no adventure on that path. the joy at completion is strong, but fades just as fast. the folks who've had their cars the longest have done their mods & maintenance as it's been needed. this keeps the joy the car brings fresh and constant. the journey is often the best part of any great adventure. and all great adventures have started with just one step.

[Flojo]

I have a 79 US-SC (930.06)
Best that could happen to my car was me doing this:

ENGINE
- ditch AC components all the way!
- ditch rear heat blower
- refurbish entire intake system
- add pop off valve in air box
- ditch entire OEM exhaust and mount new SSI with Dansk Sport 2:1
- checked valve timing and added rocker shaft RSR seals
- cleaning(*)

it runs strong now (GPS 240 kmh)

CHASSI
- changed all shocks to Bilstein N6 (Nürburgring)
- turbo tie rods at front
- all new bushings
- checked rear torsion bars and tube for rust
- added strónger sway bar at rear
- added weld-in strut brace at front
- refurbed steering rack
- corner balanced and re aligned it (with new tires)

As well as
- upgraded front/right oilcooler
- added relays

(* cleaning: took engine-/fanshroud of, cleaned cylinder fins, cleaned engine oilcooler fins, re sealed "trinity")

[wareaglescott]

Originally Posted by chrisbalich

having also recently started a project based on a 79SC, i am in the camp of drive it and start where you feel it lacks. (something i am not currently able to do) incremental projects are much more rewarding than projects where you blow it all apart, build everything, and then it's done. sure, the car comes out amazing...and that amazing car is less likely to leave you on the side of the road. but for me, there is no adventure on that path. the joy at completion is strong, but fades just as fast. the folks who've had their cars the longest have done their mods & maintenance as it's been needed. this keeps the joy the car brings fresh and constant. the journey is often the best part of any great adventure. and all great adventures have started with just one step.

This is a good point. My issue is I fully intend to do a color change which includes getting all the way down to bare metal. Hard to imagine taking it that far down and not doing all the components as I go. That is an area I am looking for more info on concerning what is the best order to go about doing things.

[Flojo]

the slippery slope

one mor quick hint: take out rear seat panel/hat tray and remove whool in each corner.
it is factory placed there for soud reduction, but in time it only sucks humidity and causes rust at bottom of c-pillar.

[chrisbalich]

Originally Posted by wareaglescott

This is a good point. My issue is I fully intend to do a color change which includes getting all the way down to bare metal. Hard to imagine taking it that far down and not doing all the components as I go. That is an area I am looking for more info on concerning what is the best order to go about doing things.

then do paint last. as you develop the suspension, brakes and driveline, you won't have to worry about pristine paint whilst driving it or working on it. then when you've got the whole car sorted fully, take it all down and paint it. all those new parts will be easy to remove at that time.

this is the path i'm trying to get back to. i took mine down very far trying to get ahead of some rust, but don't have the budget to paint the car right now. so i'm going to seal it once the rust (and sunroof) are banished, and then put it together unpainted. my plan is to drive it hard and develop the car as i go. i'll reward the build with paint in several years when the car is 'done'.

[wareaglescott]

Originally Posted by Flojo

the slippery slope

one mor quick hint: take out rear seat panel/hat tray and remove whool in each corner.
it is factory placed there for soud reduction, but in time it only sucks humidity and causes rust at bottom of c-pillar.

Great tip! thanks

[wareaglescott]

Originally Posted by Flojo

I have a 79 US-SC (930.06)
Best that could happen to my car was me doing this:

ENGINE
- ditch AC components all the way!
- ditch rear heat blower
- refurbish entire intake system
- add pop off valve in air box
- ditch entire OEM exhaust and mount new SSI with Dansk Sport 2:1
- checked valve timing and added rocker shaft RSR seals
- cleaning(*)

it runs strong now (GPS 240 kmh)

CHASSI
- changed all shocks to Bilstein N6 (Nürburgring)
- turbo tie rods at front
- all new bushings
- checked rear torsion bars and tube for rust
- added strónger sway bar at rear
- added weld-in strut brace at front
- refurbed steering rack
- corner balanced and re aligned it (with new tires)

As well as
- upgraded front/right oilcooler
- added relays

(* cleaning: took engine-/fanshroud of, cleaned cylinder fins, cleaned engine oilcooler fins, re sealed "trinity")

IT gets hot as heck here. I need AC. Even if it costs me a little power and doesn't work that great. My Cobra has no AC and I don't want 2 cars I cant enjoy much during the summer.

What is the rear heat blower and what is the advantage of getting rid of it?

[RDM]

Originally Posted by wareaglescott

IT gets hot as heck here. I need AC. Even if it costs me a little power and doesn't work that great. My Cobra has no AC and I don't want 2 cars I cant enjoy much during the summer.

What is the rear heat blower and what is the advantage of getting rid of it?

The rear heat blower is the electric fan that sits on the left side of the engine, offset toward the front of the car. It has various paper hoses that are crushed, splitting, or both attached to it. It's purpose is to even out the delivery of heat to the cabin; more than the old system when you're driving slow, less when you're driving fast. The tan paper hose that goes over the top of your cooling fan will lead you right back to it. As for what to do, search "heat backdate" on the forum. The advantage is less weight, less complexity, and a much cleaner engine bay.

As far as air conditioning, it seems like the cool kids are clearing the compressor out of the trunk and going with the Electrocooler, which is located up front and seems to be more effective than the factory setup. With your budget, you could do this.