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BobnJoz
 
Join Date: May 2000
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Unscramble my CIS/WUR spiderweb?

I just replaced the engine on my track car with a '78 3.0L. I had to make a new wire harness on the engine and I did get it running. It was hard to start and plugs were black. I had to push up the air diaphragm to squirt some fuel in to get it to start. I made the mistake of trying to adjust the allen head to lean (then would not start) and back to richer. I found out the cold start valve wasn't triggering. Found, if I grounded the negative side, it worked. Now, I can sometime, get it started but barely. Now, onto the WUR. Decided to check/clean. The screen inside was a little gunky so cleaned it out.
Going onto pressure testing. The fuel pressure gauges I got have "no" connectors to fit up to the CIS on the WUR to Distributor line.
I'm currently getting make shift fittings to not leak so I can move forward on this test.
Question: Now that I've gone down this dead end road, (reminds me of the movie, "Wrong Turn") which direction should I go now? To get it running, then fine tune....
Thanks for any suggestions.
Old 06-13-2018, 12:28 PM
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References, Not close at hand, I don't believe the last numbers are correct for a 78
Mmm, where is Tony now.
Bruce
Old 06-13-2018, 02:14 PM
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BobnJoz
 
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The engine came out of a running car. I don't believe it had a cold start issue. Bruce, wouldn't each WUR work in multiple year cars? Maybe, electrical internals are different?
Update: Got my pressure fittings not to leak and cold (garage was in upper 90's) was 3 bar. Seemed to level out so I unplugged the electrical connection from WUR and pressure slowly went to 4 bars. Then, seemed to level out again. Next step????
Thanks.
Old 06-13-2018, 03:59 PM
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Fuel pressure tests..........

Bob,

Check the CCP (cold control pressure), WCP (warm control pressure), SP (system pressure), and RP (residual pressure). BTW, you have the wrong WUR for your 3.0 SC engine. The one you have is for 76-77 (2.7 liter) engine. Do you have some pictures of the engine particularly interested to see the WUR by intake runner #2. Thanks.

Tony
Old 06-13-2018, 06:39 PM
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BobnJoz
 
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Todays update:

Garage in the low 70's. Fuel pressure with only fuel pump on (no WUR first gauge photo) and after with WUR turned on (last photo). I'm thinking this test is CCP (cold control pressure) as Tony describes? I will research his tests and do them.
Also, here are the engine numbers and WUR on left side.
Tony, I think it was you that had a very detailed post about this subject. I will revisit.
Thanks, Bob













Old 06-14-2018, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobswei View Post
Garage in the low 70's. Fuel pressure with only fuel pump on (no WUR first gauge photo) and after with WUR turned on (last photo). I'm thinking this test is CCP (cold control pressure) as Tony describes? I will research his tests and do them.
Also, here are the engine numbers and WUR on left side.
Tony, I think it was you that had a very detailed post about this subject. I will revisit.
Thanks, Bob



Bob,

I would like too know where the two (2) hoses from the WUR connect at the throttle body. The braided vacuum hose coming from the side of the WUR is connected below or above the throttle body butterfly valve? How about the second hose coming from the top of the WUR? Below or above the butterfly valve?

Or a picture of the connections at the throttle body would be great. Thanks.

Tony
Old 06-14-2018, 02:48 PM
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BobnJoz
 
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Here are the two hose connections from the WUR. Red arrow would be the butterfly valve. It didn't have the second vacuum line, (lower one on WUR) so I added it.




I did get the car started up yesterday. Seems, the cold start valve floods the engine and wont start. I disconnected the CSV (yellow ground wire I added to make it work) and was able to get it to fire up. I adjusted the allen screw so it idles great. But applying throttle, it runs rough. It probably will be difficult to start this morning with it set to idle good.
BTW - I researched the engine number and shows a '79. Not '78 as I was told. But, no O2 sensor in exhaust which I thought the '79's were the first year to be equipped with.
The engine did run well in previous car. And I added MSD and headers.
Thanks Tony, for your input.
I'm jumping back in the garage (right after lunch).
Old 06-15-2018, 10:27 AM
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the top vacuum port on the 033 is the vacuum enrichment. it goes BELOW the butterfly or to manifold vac.
you also need to take this into consideration when doing pressure tests.


how did you manage to connect the fuel hose from the FD to the WUR. not a fan of hose clamps.
there is an adapter that goes in the top of the WUR for the fuel line, that is the same one you need to fit the gauges.
you should have about .8bar drop in pressure without vac.
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Old 06-15-2018, 10:47 AM
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BobnJoz
 
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Today's update. Following T77... I moved the vacuum line to below the butterfly. Seems with all the small tweaking, starting has gotten easier.
Today, I took it to my friends smog shop to get the CO dialed in. Learned more stuff. I had the idle mixture pretty close. I small turn to rich got it very good, (at idle). Adding RPM's, things started going sideways. When the rpm's went up, it went lean. Like too much air. I'm thinking, there may be an air leak, maybe in the intake manifold area. I will get some carb cleaner and spray around all the fittings. Fuel pump and filter are original to engine. I have printouts of all the different tests, (idle, above idle, wheels rolling, etc...).
In addition, driving back to the trailer with some semi-spirited runs through 1st and 2nd, the engine would shut off as if I turned off the fuel pump. It always started right back up. And, it seemed like it had about 75 HP in a 200 LBS car. As if it were dying to jump out from under you but just started to sputter from the lake of richness. I put about 4 gallons of gas in it with only testing time in the garage. Hum??
Yea, I don't care for the hose clamps either. But, there are no fittings to get the pressure gauge to match up to the CIS. So, I slide the hose, over the threaded fitting with some sealer and clamped it. No leaks.


Old 06-16-2018, 04:30 PM
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I'll tag along on this thread...
I thought someone had a single document (forum post or PDF) that was the "CIS primer" but I haven't been able to find it.
I've got a really interesting 2.8 liter CIS motor that I'm diving into and a solid starting point would be very prudent.
(It already has a semi repaired airbox from a prior explosion!)
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Old 06-17-2018, 02:56 PM
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ROW '78 911 Targa
 
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911 CIS Primer - Index
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Old 06-17-2018, 03:15 PM
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Hey, nice marmot.
 
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FYI... I just discovered the other day that Jim Williams, who originally wrote the primer, has turned it over to Brian (Rarlyl8).
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Old 06-17-2018, 05:50 PM
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eingine id

629xxxx is a 79 motor not a 78.
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Old 06-18-2018, 07:11 AM
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BobnJoz
 
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Yes, I have been referencing the CIS primer site. Good info. Thanks.
And 47silver, thanks for confirming. I found that too. Even though no O2 sensor in exhaust.
Well, over the weekend, I've been testing and researching. I checked fuel pressure coming in to the filter and it's "0" unless I block the return line and it goes to 2.8 Bars. I don't think that's an accurate test. I also sprayed carb cleaner over everything on the intake side and engine rpm's stays the same.
Here are four print outs from my friends smog machine. They range from idle to around 2K rpm and on in first gear spinning the rollers. Ran great at idle. I forget what's what but when rpm's go up, fuel leans out.



Old 06-19-2018, 11:58 AM
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BobnJoz
 
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I may have found the issue. WUR resistance shows 00.0 cold and warm. I believe it should show 24 ohms.
Question: can I install one of these in the line?



I found one that's 22 ohms and 10 watts. My original one is this:



I found the original style resistor but in Australia. So, Will any resistor work if it has correct ohm rating?
Thanks
Old 06-21-2018, 02:13 PM
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The measured resistance is for that 50w heat blanket, which is "open" and is the problem. Inline resistor won't help. Need to replace WUR. Not sure where to find that particular heating element.
Old 06-21-2018, 03:03 PM
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BobnJoz
 
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OK, makes sense for the heating part. I did find the part in Australia. It is designed for Bosch WUR.



I just didn't want to wait for shipping.

Thanks for all the responses.
Bob
Old 06-21-2018, 03:59 PM
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That's the part. Nice website with good info. Thanks for posting
Old 06-21-2018, 04:06 PM
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