Cost of engine rebuild 912

[69porsche]

All,
How much $$ are we talking about a full engine rebuild for a 912-Not interested in anything souped up, just a basic engine rebuild-would appreciate your feedback and your experiences-Thanks!
Gordon
67-912
69-911E

[allstar]

gordan, of course"it depends.' My 1966 resto was running before being parked for 30 years. I got it running by changing fluids and plugs only,but is was well worn hence the rebuild. New bearings,pistons,jugs,seals,headwork, rebuild carbs,fuel pump,disturb,etc,etc, .I suspect mine was $7000-8000. I realiy don't want to know....You got to do what it needs ...as long as you have it apart you might as well replace _____________.Fill in the blank. Be prepared $$$ jeff

[Peter Graham]

+1 for Jeff as a starting number: it all depends on what you want out of the motor... and what's in the motor.

My 912 suffered a broken crank in 1999; I did not rebuild that motor but with a new German replacement crank and aftermarket big bore kit and everthing else 'patched' together: $6K in May, 2000. Since then I have built one motor, currently building a second with a third 'in the wings': I start with a chromoly Scat crank ($2.2K). Heads need to be 'refreshed' which often includes welding cracks (requires new valve seats); I have had my 'head guy' do three sets of heads ranging from $1.3K to $1.8K a set.

You should be getting the idea that you can spend as much as you want. On the flip side, you can scrimp and save, but you need to be careful. It doesn't do any good to cheaply rebuild a motor and compromise the integrity. This can be no more apparent than a top end rebuild on a old, worn bottom end. I admit that a new crank is costly, but I take crank breakage almost completely out of the formula. In the end it's up to you.

I figure each of my engines at $10-12K with me doing much of the work, farming out the heads (need to be done correctly) and other machine work for which I am not equipped. Included in that figure: new crankshaft, new forged pistons/cast iron cylinders, stainless steel valves, 'new' cam, regrind lifters/rockers, balancing. There are a host of other 'small' costs that add up.

Hope this helps but does not deter,
Peter
'68 912 Coupe ('Rusty')
'68 912 SW Targa (resto project: 'BOAT' for 'bust out another thousand')

[Jaems]

A complete new engine: case, heads, pistons, cylinders, crank, rods, valves and etc. Figure $18K, if done right. Also the complete rebuild of the Carburetors and distributor is included. It can be done cheaper, with cheaper parts and your own labor. However, you will get what you pay for.

[cmpski]

Peter does most of his own work and knows these engines well. I think Jaems is in the ballpark if you out source the work AND as long as you don't get too fancy. Like ported twin plug heads, high end rods, large displacement, etc. Do that and you probably break the 20K number. The challenge for many 912 owners is they bought these cars a few years back at a reasonable price but keeping these cars maintained properly is just as expensive as early 911's. There are a ton of 911 engine parts out there but 616 engines, (356,912) haven't been produced for 40 plus years. The temptation for 912 owners is to try to do things on the cheap. Having to rebuild the engine twice, (the second time properly) is VERY expensive. Have a true expert look over your engine parts very carefully.
Chris

[69porsche]

Thanks for the input---if I decide to go that route, it's something that I would have to pay $$$$ for as I don't have the tools to undertake the job, but you gave me some good ideas on what to think before I undertake anything like this-Thanks
Gordon
67-MGBGT
67- 912
68-Jag E Type FHC
69-911E
2013-Honda Accord

[Jaems]

Just be careful who you go to for the rebuild. You can be charged for parts that didn't go into the engine. Just because they can build a VW engine. Doesn't mean they can a Porsche.

[Matt Monson]

$12-15k is a good ballpark including turning the crank and rebuilding the heads completely.

[Geary]

I have the last brand new 912 engine case for sale, should anyone need one. Please PM ..

[matt930s]

There is good video series from Harry Pellow on rebuilding the 356/912 motors. His books are also informative and he has an interesting sense of humor. This can give you an idea of what's required or even help guide you on a rebuild.

Another good series is the vw bugme videos for procedures on a rebuild.

MattR

[NICE 69 S]

About four years ago I built this engine for a friend of mine. This was the dirtiest engine I have ever seen, thanks to leaking (for years) lines to and from the oil filter. He told me he would pay me $1,000, and it took me a while to figure out that was for the whole job, parts included!!
Well, in the end I charged him $1K for labor, plus $200 to completely disassemble the carbs and sand all the sealing surfaces flat. Also completely rebuild the distributor (and fuel pump) with the Bosch rebuild kit. It took me over a year to get it back together (he wasn't in a hurry) and I figure I made about $5 per hour!! See all that Satin black paint, well there are more than fourty pieces of sheet metal to paint (then cooked in my BBQ to cure the paint). Plus welding and brazing up all of the cracked pieces, plus about 15 hours to completely assemble the tin on the engine BEFORE paint to make sure every part fits perfectly.
The most expensive part was to machine and line bore the case back to STD, plus over $400 for the main bearings. We re-used the P/C, because they were in good shape. The final bill came to just over $3K. Did I say he was a good friend?
Well, he sold the car without even installing the engine (stretch wrap sealed to keep out all the dust and such) and the new owner in Seattle tells me it runs great.
Bob B

[69porsche]

Originally Posted by matt930s

There is good video series from Harry Pellow on rebuilding the 356/912 motors. His books are also informative and he has an interesting sense of humor. This can give you an idea of what's required or even help guide you on a rebuild.

Another good series is the vw bugme videos for procedures on a rebuild.

MattR

Thanks Matt, I will check it out. Good to see another person from Charleston on this site. I have only seen one vintage 911, a 1965 911 out in Kiawah-as for 912's never see them. They have cars and coffee at Mt Pleasant Town Centre, every Saturday morning but new cars are not my passion and after once there, you pretty much see the same thing every time, just my observation!

[69porsche]

Originally Posted by NICE 69 S

About four years ago I built this engine for a friend of mine. This was the dirtiest engine I have ever seen, thanks to leaking (for years) lines to and from the oil filter. He told me he would pay me $1,000, and it took me a while to figure out that was for the whole job, parts included!!
Well, in the end I charged him $1K for labor, plus $200 to completely disassemble the carbs and sand all the sealing surfaces flat. Also completely rebuild the distributor (and fuel pump) with the Bosch rebuild kit. It took me over a year to get it back together (he wasn't in a hurry) and I figure I made about $5 per hour!! See all that Satin black paint, well there are more than fourty pieces of sheet metal to paint (then cooked in my BBQ to cure the paint). Plus welding and brazing up all of the cracked pieces, plus about 15 hours to completely assemble the tin on the engine BEFORE paint to make sure every part fits perfectly.
The most expensive part was to machine and line bore the case back to STD, plus over $400 for the main bearings. We re-used the P/C, because they were in good shape. The final bill came to just over $3K. Did I say he was a good friend?
Well, he sold the car without even installing the engine (stretch wrap sealed to keep out all the dust and such) and the new owner in Seattle tells me it runs great.
Bob B

That's a beauty! a true piece of art! Well done Bob!

[Peter Graham]

Well, if we're promoting eye candy here... This 616 motor was built with parts from two '68 912 motors, installed in our 912 coupe in August of 2012 and has propelled the coupe for over 50K miles in that time, including 3 cross-country trips to the 912 West Coast Rendezvous and a Texas round trip to the Hill Country Rallye. we are preparing for another HRC next month. The front photo shows a 'run panel' made with collaboration from Sterling Vaden, another 912 enthusiast who lives here in Black Mountain. The back photo shows an AFR/O2 sensor bung welded into the tailpipe.

[James Wallace]

Gordon,
$12-$15K for a ground up rebuild. This assumes the existing crank and cam can be machined without being replaced. The shop I interact with has been doing them for 30 plus years. Tins and hardware are powder coated and plated as well. Hopefully you still have the Solex set ups because those are also rebuilt properly with machining, oversize butterflies, shafts and bushings. Distributor as well. The motor is run and broken in on a test stand to boot. Please PM me if you would like me to put you in touch.

[NICE 69 S]

Peter,
Along with my "Eye Candy" photo, I also gave a complete run down of the cost of the rebuild, which seems to be missing from your post.
These motors can be rebuilt on a budget, and still look good. Powder coating and plating look good, but add unnecessary cost if you are on a budget.
The hardest part of my rebuild was the sheet metal. I spent twice as much time on the sheet metal, especially the heater boxes, as I did on the long block. Welding up cracked parts and making sure everything fits just right takes a lot of time, but it is time well spent. And also something you don't have to pay someone to do.
I still have a 912 engine lurking in my garage, maybe some day I will get around to rebuilding it.
Bob B

[Peter Graham]

Originally Posted by NICE 69 S

I also gave a complete run down of the cost of the rebuild, which seems to be missing from your post.

I mentioned some of the major cost issues and presented a cost range in my first post in this thread. 'Complete run down' - not really for a complete rebuild. 'Budget'? Not to include the slippery slope of unknown issues...

I have receipts of almost every part I've purchased for the coupe, motors included, in one 3-ring binder and the Targa in another. The numbers are there, in blissful anonymity. The engine tin in the photo is paint, not powder coat; the fasteners/parts that show in yellow zinc are new, others I home-plated in zinc and polished bright. Here's a photo of the stages of air filter canister clip plating; how do I account for the hours it took to do eight clips?



Ok, so here's a 'cherry-picked short list' (does not include stuff like hose, clamps, oil, filters, odds/ends already on the shelf and a whole host of smaller costs):
Scat Crankshaft: $2250
Rods: (traded for SPG roller crank)
Main Bearings: $400
Rod Bearings: $56
CSP Ultimate Gasket Set: $237
Fuel pump kit: $38
Camshaft: $275 exchange
Lifter Grind: $120
Oil pump gears: $450
Pushrod Tubes: $200
Rocker Arm grind: $200
Rocker Arm shaft refurb: $260
JE Forged Pistons/cast iron Cylinders: $1200
Cyl Head rework with SS Valves: $1800
Cyl Head washers: $20
Solex Refurb: $1200 + a second set of Solexes
Jets: $83
Carb Isolators: $37
AL Oil Cooler: $525
Endplay shims: $54
Chromoly Gland Nut: $49
German 009 to RS0012: $125
Pertonix Ign II: $100
CSP Spark Plug Wires Set: $79
Gen Pulley Kit: $89
PreMat oil pump cover: $250
8AN Plumbing/Tools: $350
Breather Hose: $39

Various machine work/balancing: $1000
Various hardware: $300 est.
Various Paint/Supplies/Chemicals: $500 est.

[NICE 69 S]

Peter,
Thanks for that list. It's obvious that you did a lot more things than I did to my friends motor. Pretty much sucks that I used to pay $7 for a set of pushrod tubes, and now they are $200!! And the main bearings. Had a box of Glyco std/std mains on my shelf that I wrote on the box the price I paid back in the 60's, $25. Told my friend I wouldn't let him have them, since I still have a 912 engine. And when I see how much you paid to have your heads rebuilt, I remembered selling Competition Engineering 2 sets of 912 heads, completely rebuilt (they did the work), for basically $150 per head. Oh well.
I used to rebuild a lot of VW and Porsche motors, starting in the early '60. In 1965, I put a 1600N engine in my '56 Oval window Bug, along with a long axle Type III all synchro trans and early Porsche brakes. Pretty fast at the time, but it ended up (after a few years) as a 1700 Super. To get the added displacement, Ray Litz at Comp Engineering would take a brand new set of Mahle "Industrial" pistons and shorten the barrels and chamfer the top edge of the pistons to boost the compression a bit, and he would sell them for $150. Wow, wish I had a few sets of those now. Also built a street dune buggy, low to the ground with big fat tires, and powered by a 1700 912 engine with a Norris cam (the motor that is still sitting in my garage). Very fast car!!

Pretty sad that I could rebuild my 2.0S motor for just about what it costs to rebuild a 912 these days.
Bob B

[69porsche]

Peter,
Do you do your own work in terms of engine rebuild?
Gordon[

QUOTE=Peter Graham;9007347]I mentioned some of the major cost issues and presented a cost range in my first post in this thread. 'Complete run down' - not really for a complete rebuild. 'Budget'? Not to include the slippery slope of unknown issues...

I have receipts of almost every part I've purchased for the coupe, motors included, in one 3-ring binder and the Targa in another. The numbers are there, in blissful anonymity. The engine tin in the photo is paint, not powder coat; the fasteners/parts that show in yellow zinc are new, others I home-plated in zinc and polished bright. Here's a photo of the stages of air filter canister clip plating; how do I account for the hours it took to do eight clips?



Ok, so here's a 'cherry-picked short list' (does not include stuff like hose, clamps, oil, filters, odds/ends already on the shelf and a whole host of smaller costs):
Scat Crankshaft: $2250
Rods: (traded for SPG roller crank)
Main Bearings: $400
Rod Bearings: $56
CSP Ultimate Gasket Set: $237
Fuel pump kit: $38
Camshaft: $275 exchange
Lifter Grind: $120
Oil pump gears: $450
Pushrod Tubes: $200
Rocker Arm grind: $200
Rocker Arm shaft refurb: $260
JE Forged Pistons/cast iron Cylinders: $1200
Cyl Head rework with SS Valves: $1800
Cyl Head washers: $20
Solex Refurb: $1200 + a second set of Solexes
Jets: $83
Carb Isolators: $37
AL Oil Cooler: $525
Endplay shims: $54
Chromoly Gland Nut: $49
German 009 to RS0012: $125
Pertonix Ign II: $100
CSP Spark Plug Wires Set: $79
Gen Pulley Kit: $89
PreMat oil pump cover: $250
8AN Plumbing/Tools: $350
Breather Hose: $39

Various machine work/balancing: $1000
Various hardware: $300 est.
Various Paint/Supplies/Chemicals: $500 est.[/QUOTE]

[Peter Graham]

Originally Posted by 69porsche

Do you do your own work in terms of engine rebuild?

I do now: I have experience with a couple of shops that I wouldn't go back to for work. I farm out machine work out since I just don't have time, talent, tools or capability for anymore. Feel free to correspond via e-mail: wpgraham912@charter.net.

Where are you located?

Peter