Starter wiring- no cranking, just Solenoid

Morrie · 08-28-2003, 06:21 AM

I got the motor in late last night, hooked everything up, hit the key, and no crank from the starter. Here's how I have it wired. Does this sound right to you?

Keep in mind, I have a ford type solenoid....

I have 5 wires:

(2) yellow wires are connected to the control connection on the solenoid. 1 I believe is from the ignition key and one from the yellow wire under the engine lid for remote starting.

(1) Big +12 from Battery connected to Terminal A of Solenoid. This is one of the big lugs on the solenoid.
(1) Wire which I believe is a regulator output from the generator is tied to Terminal A of Solenoid with Big +12.

(1) wire connected to Terminal B of Solenoid, the other big lug. This wire then goes to the starter. On the starter are 2 connection lugs, 1 tied to ground, which is the one closest to the inside when viewed from the rear of the starter. The other lug is the one I believe to be the +12 terminal.

Thats it. The 'original' wiring from the PO was pretty messed up (melted/frayed/miswired) so I pretty much started over. Also, the ground strap is securelu connected to the tranny and when I try to start, I can hear the solid thud of the solenoid (relay pick) but nothing from the motor. All my idiot lights work.....

Any ideas???? I'l post on Pelican if you're stumped..... I am not real familar with starters but I am pretty sure I am getting 12V out of the Solenoid- need to confirm tonight.

Thanks Guys....

Morrie

adot · 08-28-2003, 06:59 AM

Hey Morrie

Battery fully charged ?

Brett

Morrie · 08-28-2003, 07:01 AM

I thought of that too.... I have it on the charger now. Would be cool if its that simple, I just wanted to be sure I wasn't missing something obvious...... The battery thing came to mind last night as I was leaving the garage. Installaing the engine back in the car by myself was a slow process!

Morrie

cgarr · cgarr's Garage

I think thats right? I have two, a red and black on the big term, its the only place it can go and the slide on connection on top is the yellow wires as I see it. Do you have your (good) ground hooked up?

Craig

Morrie · 08-28-2003, 08:06 AM

Ground is solid- new strap, clean connections. Maybe its just the battery.....

Morrie

craign · craign's Garage

Morrie,

There is a reason they call it "Found On Road Dead" you know....

Here is the bosch relay instruction, at the bottom is a link to the wiring diagram. It is for a VW Bus so substitute the blue wire shown for your yellow, most everything else in identical.

http://type2.com/bartnik/relay.htm

If that ford relay don't work get your butt to any VW shop for the Bosch WR-1 relay kit, about $10 and has an inline fuse for an added measure of protection. Just don't get caught without spare fuses..............no you cannot ask me how I know this

Have you checked the electrical diagram on Dave's 912 site? I also highly recommend RonD's schematic package for about $20 I think it is.

Craign

Morrie · 08-28-2003, 10:30 AM

Sadly, the thing was fine until I pulled the motor and cleaned up the wiring.....17 years in electronics and you'd think I could wire up a SPST relay for goodness sake!!!! I guess not.

Morrie

adot · 08-28-2003, 10:48 AM

Hey Morrie

Why not get rid of the relay ? In the last 15k miles, I have yet had the starter alone let me down. But, it did take two rebuilt starters to find a good one

Brett

Morrie · 08-28-2003, 10:50 AM

cuz i am chicken, thats why. also I have no idea how to rewire it to do this...

Morrie · 08-29-2003, 06:54 AM

OK, it starts now. Turns out I needed to attach the trigger voltage to the Starter also- to actuate the Solenoid. Looks to me like the two solenoids are in series..... what the heck is this buying me and how WOULD a person bypass the one on the starter???

hmmmmmm... the dummy is stumped again!

Morrie

jac912 · jac912's Garage

I think two relays on a starter circuit are an effort at helping hot start situations. The theory is that the forward relay doesn't heat up as much as that on the starter.
Jim in Ma.

Morrie · 08-29-2003, 05:05 PM

Jim,

It'd make sense to me if the relaus (solenoids) were in parallel, but in series, if one fails, the other is useless..... at least thats the way it looks to be wired...

Morrie

craign · craign's Garage

It is my understanding the 2nd relay takes some of the current load off the ignition switch when starting and directs more directly to the starter solenoid.

I had a burned through contact on the start side of my ignition switch and took a long while to figure that one out.

Craign

Touque · 08-30-2003, 12:34 PM

so how's it running now Morrie?

have you done a leak-down and compression test now? I'm really curious!

Morrie · 08-30-2003, 03:13 PM

me too. Had a carburator fail and am waiting for a new top plate from Parts Heaven.....

PS= fix the link on your signature... and add some html tags!!

;-)

Touque · 08-31-2003, 09:06 AM

what's HTLM?

Morrie · 08-31-2003, 09:46 AM

I dunno, heard it somewhere... I guess you spell it different! BTW- when I click either of them, I get a page cannot be displayed error.....

Touque · 08-31-2003, 10:12 AM

yes I do, hence the

i'll talk to the technical person and see what's up with the site - someone probably set something up wrong again... sheesh