2 eBay cars--comparo....

[jjflash]

Hi,

I'm starting to get an interest in 912's. They seem to be relatively affordable, nice-looking, fairly easy to work on and, from what I have seen so far, an enthusiastic, friendly and helpful user base. I still don't know much about them so I thought I might learn something by posting these two cars that are currently listed on eBay. They both look attractive to me, but I'm not really at a stage where I would feel confident in buying one. Maybe I can learn something here? All comments, advice appreciated.

The first one is a '66:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3ASS%3AUS%3A1&viewitem=&item=130149877122

What I like about this one is that it is claimed to be "all original" and pretty darn low mileage! It looks to be in nice shape! One question I know I have is what's the up/downside of the earlier cars. And of course how bad could that "small area" that needs attention be?

The spread between the opening bid and the "Buy It Now" price is small. I looked up the price in "Cars That Matter," and they say a "Condition 4" car is worth more than the Buy It Now price, but I'm not willing to plunk down $9K on a car until I know more about what I want, or IF I want a 912.

The second is a '69:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3ASS%3AUS%3A1&viewitem=&item=110166023982#ebayphotohosting

I love the color/look on this car. (What color is that??? Looks like the "Ochre" on the limited-edition 924S SE Le Man edition sold in Europe.) Mileage is also extraordinarily low and the car seems to have been well taken care of by a very knowledgeable car person (see his website). There's no "Buy It Now" price, and I have no idea what the reserve might be, so hard to do a direct comparison.

Looking forward to getting some feedback and learning something.

[JT912]

Stephen,
My comments would be to go look at and drive as many examples as you can. It looked like you are from the LA area so there should be many around to choose from. Both Ebay cars have some non-original items which may indicate other areas that have been screwed around with. If you are going for one, I'd go for the '66. If you aren't getting the responses here, post the same question on the 912 Registry (www.912bbs.org).
Good luck.
John T.(Oregon)

[itsofishel]

I bet you a dollar, those odometers have gone around at least once. Where's all the good under the car photos? That 68 have a leak in the rear window (see head liner stains) which means the rear seats probably have good size holes in them, no narrow bumper trim and the 68 side markers are filled. Could be a bondo queen. other than that the price is pretty good but says reserve not reached.

The 66 has the early S front bumper and nice hounds tooth seats from a 69 (reupholstered) and again no good shots of under the car, humm. I do like the painted red head lights;-) This is a car I would go and look at up close and personal for the 9k asking price.

Gregg

[itsofishel]

John,
You promote that other brand as if you are selling Amway;-)

Yeah, the other place might take Steven down at the knees

You've been warned!!!;-)

John, I didn't see you at Sovren, you missed a great showing.

Cheers,

Gregg

[dickepoohp]

Second one sold for something like $9,700.

[Jeff Trask]

I agree with Gregg's comments regarding the car. I'd have him look at a car for me anytime. Gregg knows what he's talking about.

We disagree about the 912BBS. It is a great place. Many more participants and there's just so much more 912 info there. Make sure you know who your expert is over there. Gregg's been banned from using the 912BBS. The only one ever I believe. It's had the effect of making the Pelican 912 Forum a better place for good information. Gregg is full of it!

I'm in So Cal and would be happy to look at anything you find in my area.

Good luck!

[itsofishel]

Banned but not out;-)

Nice corral of cars Jeff.

Gregg

[itsofishel]

The 912BBS is like a bunch of liberals, They like to sound off about free speech, expecting the rest us us to go along with it,(Like THERE car views and thinking is the only) and talk up the first amendment, (like OUR way or else) but hate criticism and another points of views like mine. For that I've been banned.

I think China follows those say principals. Political prisoners are on an incline for speaking their mind about the government. I hear kidney, liver, and Heart transplants are up by 200% in China for foreigners. To bad those organs are came from good loving political prisoners who spoke out their beliefs. Did you know the government of China makes the families of the prisoners executed each day to pay for the bullet used?

A sand box shouldn't be simply sniffing each others butts and liking it;-)

Oh yeah and China IS the largest world polluter yet I have to live green or die. Stupid Liberals.

Gregg

[dickepoohp]

I must wander through life with rose colored glasses. I frequent both boards. Have a 79SC and a newly acquired 912E. Have posted really dumb questions on both and been treated very nicely...no snide sniping at all. The 12E board in particular has bent over backwards to be helpful.
btw: for all the Horrified Ebay denigrators, I found the 911 on ebay, am tickled to death with it, and apparently got a bargain.

[maybe368]

Thought I would weigh in on the merits on conservatism and liberalism of 912's...I believe that these forums are a great source of info and the ability to harvest years of user experience, but unfortunately politics and such always creeps into whereever there is discussion. That being said, I would like to remind all liberal as well as conservative porsche owners that this car was designed by a nazi named Ferdinand Porsche, (not the 911 which was designed by his son, but Porsches in general) who was well liked by Hitler. The original VW factory in Wolfsburg was built with the forced labor of conquered peoples and prisoners, many from Auswich (spelling?). It never produced 1 car for the public untill after the war and produced many weapons of war that were used against the allies. All that being said...FORGET politics of the cars because this fact will forever trump any other political opinion, green or otherwise. concerning this car. Why dont we all get along and just enjoy one of the only products of nazi Germany that is a good thing... VIVA LA DIFERENCIA

[J11]

Porsche was not a member of the Nazi party

[maybe368]

Maybe not willingly, but according to the recent history international show he was and he was issued a nazi uniform although he never wore it...besides, even if he wasnt he certainly used the nazi party for his own ends...that is some nitpicking...he even requested forced lobor...so if you believe that he wasnt great, but he was not inocent..........this type of rationalization is a huge part of the problem

[Arizona_928]

can you post your proof?

[maybe368]

Proof of what? There is not much controversy over his complicity with the Nazis...there is some controversy as to actual membership in the nazi party itself, but even if he wasnt, it does not excuse the complicity. I never intended my comments to become an argument over the politics of Ferdinand Porsche, Hell I own 1...but we cannot and should not deny the truth..as to proof I am in Mexico working on dialup, but when I get to broadband I will dig up some info...

[J11]

Everything I've heard was that Porsche wasn't a big fan of the Nazi Party. That said, it was the ruling party in Germany at the time, and any and all industrialists had dealings with them, whether they supported the cause or not.

Not trying to argue either, but the full story/great care should be given when throwing the 'Nazi' label around.

[maybe368]

It is what it is...He was a driven industrialist that had a get it done at any cost attitude. The facts are there and we can sugar coat it as much as we want...I for one am sick of political correctness...you know like calling global warming climate change...he appears in many photos and films with hitler...he spent time in prison as a collaborator...like I said you can paint it how you want, but it is what it is.

[Jaems]

During the era of the Third Riech, all industrialist belonged to the party. Or you didn't do business with the German Government. If you will notice the films. When Prof Porsche shows off the VW prototypes to the government officials. He is always wearing his party pin and gives the salute. It is even in the films that factory has produced. All it really proves is that he found it prudent to be a member of the party. It doesn't mean that he approved of their philosophy.

[maybe368]

I never said that he did...he is the only one that could answer that question and he is dead...when you sleep with the devil, for whatever reason, what does that make you?.........He was no angel, as most of us are'nt, I dont understand all the outrage...he made a deal with the devil....as did most of them, is that now excused because he made a good car? That is very dangerous thinking

[thomasz]

You guys should read some books and stop writing history by discussion group. Of course Porsche was intertwined with Nazi Germany, even if he was not a Nazi Party member. He designed tanks and built many munitions. The VW plant only built a handful of cars before the end of the war. Most all of the plants' wartime production was for WWII.

Read Karl Ludvigsen's Battle for the Beetle and Excellence was Expected. There are many good pictures of Porsche smoozing with Hitler as Porsche pitched the idea of the Beetle. (A people's car was indeed a long standing idea of Porsche going back to Mercedes and Auto Union days. It seems he would do whatever it takes to advance his idea.)

It is difficult to apply a litmus test to everything in life. Perhaps if we knew more we wouldn't even be able to buy a toothbrush because of the actions of the makers. I would rather Porsche were not so very closely tied to the Nazis. But I still do like my Porsche car. (Ford was an anti-Semite too. And I don't like their cars.) That being said, Porsche's choice is not a choice that I would make. As long as you and your family is not starving and has shelter, you do have a choice!

Tom Zuraw

[maybe368]

I do not know if you read the entire string or not, but THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I SAID IN THE BEGINNING and was only responding to what I percieved as a surprising response to my first post. PS you are not the only one that reads. I said from the beginning that you cannot consider the politics of the car, just enjoy it...Anyone own a Mitsubishi...you know Zeros and all...