i was doing some number crunching and found that my 67 is a 912 conversion #355032 so this would be a early 67 euro car?? with only less than 700 made??
i sold a 65 912 last year 350159 it had the fog switch next to the headlight switch this car was solid as a rock no rust euro car allso??

Thanks again, RatBox. I'll take a look at that area of the transmission, see what I've got. Say, if it was a 901 5 speed with airport gears, I could throw it right in my 911! :)

gregKI,

I got those split year number breakdowns from this website that is all about the site maker's super original Karmann bodied 1966 U.S. 912 coupe (when I say original , I mean prior to his restoring it) :

www.darrylsgarage.com/912/912PROV.htm


The more commonly used production numbers for Porsche Body 1967 MY 912 coupes are :

354001 - 355601 (1601 units)

I looked again at his site , and the Production No.'s are the same. But he throws another column into his chart which is "manufacture year" vs. model year . So that is what made it a little confusing.

The car was a special order. It also has a front oil cooler, front and rear stabilizers and etc. The body was never drilled for US plates. They are put on the car like a dealer would. Most of the time I forget to but the US plates on the car. The car, when first sold in 67, had the California black plates. Which I also still have. It was then registered, later in 67, with the Oregon blue plates.

Those were German plates. When I do German car shows. I run the German plates. Most of the time I just have the Danish plates.

Karmann was just a coach builder. The factory was using Porsche's facilities to build the 911s 64 model year on. So most of the bodies, for the 912's, were done at Karmann. Then transported to the factory to be finished.
so there can and are some Euro Karmann bodies 912's. As there are also some factory Vin # US 912's. In 65 they were all Euro spec cars.

There are a few that claimed that they have Karmann 911's. However, I believe that they are Just converted 912's. None have produced a Kardex supporting this claim.

My '65 912 is 451326 (Karmann, three-dial dash, solid motor mount across the back, windshield washer reservoir in right fender, non-adjustable front struts, etc.). It originally had the same radio set-up as yours. Delivered to an American serviceman in Stuttgart in August '65 and privately imported to the U.S.

Frank

It is actually a 66 model year. The Karmann Vin# Started in late July for the 66 Model year. All 65 were built in the factory with the factory Vin#. The very early 66's still were still using some of the original 65 items. There were no Karmann 65's the car was missed registered in German at the base. I had a 68 with a vin# 138xxxx instead of the 128xxxx. The mistake was made during registration and up until a couple of years ago it was never change. I tried several times to get it right. Since I no longer have the car. I really don't care any more.

All early model years went from August to June with a month vacation in July. The only difference was the 65 model year Started in January and ended in June of 65. The 66 model year started in late July of 65. There were some changes made to the 66 from Sept -Dec 65 from the body color painted dash, solid motor mounts, and etc. Some of these changes were due to complains and safety.

fbarret,

is it a Euro spec car or US spec. (does it have a 83xxxx or 7xxxxx numbered motor).

I would guess he was directed into purchasing a US spec. originally built version . Whomever sold it to him probably assumed (or was told by him) , he would be taking it back to the US.

But maybe not ?

I still believe my general suspicions are true. That once both Karmann and Ruetter bodies were being used to build 912's. That generally , for the 1966 & 1967 model year cars. The bulk of the Karmann bodies were assembled as U.S. spec. , and the bulk of the Ruetter bodies were assembled as Euro spec.

The bulk of the Porsches and 912's were sold in the US, the most in California. As many of the Factory Vin# that are in the US. I doubt they were all Euro spec cars and imported by US Military or US citizens living aboard. There will be more Karmann body cars in the US than elsewhere. There were just more Karmann bodies built. Remember Karmann didn't assemble cars they just built the bodies.

Have you check the Vin# for the RHD drive cars? Were they Karmann, Factory or both. They were most likely Karmann. It was much easier for a major coach builder to change sides.

The original Kardex's information from the factory in Germany would also give the build and shipping date, which dealer and who bought the car. When I got mine back in the 70's it was free. Today from my understanding, from Porsche America, they give you very little of the information for $100+.

Without talking to or being the original owner, you are not going to really know; if you have a car that was US or Euro spec originally. So I would say that your suspicions are fairly correct that most Karmann cars, in the US, were originally US spec cars. However, I can't go with that assumption on the factory built bodies. There are just too many here in the US that have US specs. Have you checked with the folks over at the 912BBS. There is also a new web site that is listing Vin# of 912s and some information at 912VIN.com - The database for Vehicle Indentification Numbers ( VIN ) of the Porsche 912..

I don't know, i'm just trying to figure it out .

I checked all the data bases. Not only do there not seem to be alot of Ruetter built 1966-67 912 coupes in the US period (or even world wide) .

On one of the the only databases that lists Vins (912VIN.com), there are only 19 Total 1966 MY Ruetter coupes listed . That's from anywhere (of which only 5 list engine numbers : 3 euro motors / 2 US motors) .

For 1967 MY , there are 20 Ruetter coupes listed. Again from any locale (of which 10 have discernable engine numbers listed : 4 Euro Motors / 6 US motors ).

My guess is that since the US has the most cars. That some of these Ruetter bodies that are listed with US motors currently . Have had them changed out. If you are in the US. , and you have a failed or lost motor . And you go to acquire another. What are your chances of locating a euro unit ... very slim.

Also on the 1967 list , 2 RHD cars (obviously Euro market) , No. 355062 & 355069 are both listed as currently having US motors. Would porsche install US motors in UK cars originally ? (Maybe , i'm wrong but i don't think so ? As far as I know , UK is part of the European market. So they should have 83xxxx numbered motors originally).

That kind of shows you what the chances are , when a motor gets changed , of finding one type of motor versas another. Especially in the US.

On 912 registry (for 1966 thru 67 Ruetter coupes / 350706 - 355601) : 141 Ruetter body 912 coupes listed total (and only one car listed past VIN No. 353600 . Not one 1967 listed period)


As I said at the top of this post, I don't know for certain , i'm just going off what I see. And looking for more empirical data. So far I only have found one Ruetter 1966-67 912 coupe documented as being a US spec car.

I have found some other engine number documented 1966-67 Ruetter body 912's - but all were Eurospec.

But hey, I only started looking in the last 2 months !

The search for the answer continues.

I forgot.

Jaems, i would love to hear (and possbly see ?) more about your oil cooler ?

You say Factory option ? , definately neat.

Is the grill on the rear deck in good shape and does it have the drip pan?

A new replacement engine did not have any engine numbers. The third piece was blank. There were also industrial engines. Which some have ended in 912's as replacement engines. The 83,000 numbered engine had the Euro type heaters. The 74-75,000 had the other type heaters. That was the only difference in the two engines.

From 65 through early 68 the engine was the 616/36 in the US and elsewhere. mid 68 on it was 616/39 and in 69 616/40 for the US. The rest of the world still used the 616/36 engines.

Each country in Europe had it own specs and Porsche had to cater to these to sell cars. Though they were not as severe as the US became in the later 60's. The US specs engine is what killed the 912 and was then replaced by the 914.

The 914 was to the rest of the world a VW Porsche. The car was built by VW with a Porsche massage engine. It was sold in the US as a Porsche only because sport cars were given a slight break by the US gov and VW was considered a passenger car company only.

Also not all RHD cars went to England. Some went to South Africa, Australia, Sweden, Japan, and etc.

I have been around this stuff since the 50's and grew up in a neighborhood where folks drove mostly British and German Cars. All I have ever own was British, German or Fords cars and one 56 Chevy that lasted a week.

Most 356 folks upgraded to the 912. They were afraid of the 911 engine at first. I had several friends that bought new 912s in 66 and 67. Then migrated to the 911S in 69 and 70. I didn't until my Euro 74 911S Targa. However, I have always kept my first Porsche which is my 912. But I didn't keep my 65 350 Shelby I bought new or my 73 Mach 1. Other than my BMW 325 ES the 912 has been the most fun to drive.

Jaems ,

Not really what I started off speaking of but ...

As far as I know. Factory built replacement 356 /912 motors come stamped 'KD' or 'AT' . Followed by a normal type engine number

These type codes stand for :

KD - Kunden Dienst - Customer service

AT - Aus Tausch - exchange service - factory refreshed engine - not all new but mostly


If a motor does not have a stamp . I believe that piece has been acquired separately. I don't know anything about what is stamped on industrial (or any other type of application) complete motors / longblocks. I'll try to find out and let you know.

This is at least the way it was in Central Europe , i'm told by an expert (and from what i've come across myself). I don't know if FACTORY rebuilt and/or replacement motors made it to the US dealers. Or how far away from DE , for other various world markets.

And when I say 'UK' market , I mean anywhere in the world where people are driving on the left hand side of the road (or where ever RHD cars went period ). I would believe any production RHD 1965-67 912's would have originally been built with an 83xxxx motor.


Just for clarification. I'm not suggesting that one motor is better than another . Or one body type/builder is either . I'm just interested in the history . What happened. How things were built , why , and the stories behind.

G'day
I have a 1965 912 coupe RHD Australian delivered car that was built July 65 .
It's body #350696 and engine # 740???
Its original engine is long gone (30 years +) but the rest is very original .
It is one of five 912's delivered into Australia in 1965 .
Cheers Doug

Had a request to see a picture of the rear grille, this person has a PM about it.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1298859474.jpg

Also had a question about the muffler. Here is a photo of that:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1298859665.jpg

The car is not giving up parts easily. I did find it has a 10/65 dated 901 5 speed in it, which is good news. Of course, I spent all day trying to get it out of the car. Most every bolt in the CV joints rounded out immediately, or simply turned to dust at the first turn, so the transmission is still in there. This is going to be a long process...

I also have some other information-

More on the transmission that's in it, or at least the type. As soon as I get it out, I should be able to read the number on it, and I'm sure it's the one it was built with, if I'm just going by the date on it.

901.301.101.0-- is there anything special to note about this, or is it just a normal 901 5 speed?

There are four (4) heads that came with the car. I'm not sure why. Part numbers on all of them are 616.104.301.03- anything special to note about them, based on the part number? I need to find the dates on them, if there are any- maybe that will show me which ones are original to the car and which ones aren't.

remember to keep me in the loop on the wheels & caps.

The transaxle in the 65 912 should be a 902/1 5 speed. All non US car were 5 speeds. For 66 all US 912's came with a 902/0 4 speed as standard. The 902/1 5 speed could be special ordered as a option. In Euro for 66 912's could be special ordered with the 902/0 4 speed. The 5 speed was standard there.

"Most every bolt in the CV joints rounded out immediately"

Did you mean unniversal joint flanges (or more accurately nadella half shaft flanges) ?

It's my understanding that early 912's (1965 into 1966) came originally with Nadella halfshafts with universal joints of some kind.

That is right they used the Nadella type until the end of the 66 model year. Then the smaller Löbro CV until the end of the 68 model year. In 69 they went to a larger type Löbro CV. When the Nadella's went out. The Dealers usually updated to the smaller Löbro type CV. It would require a special flange replacement on the transaxle to accommodate the Löbro type CV.