912 Engine newbie....
 

well I may be thinking about starting a 550 Spyder project...

I have head a 912 engine is a good engine for the car...

wondering if you blokes can educate me on these engines...

ease of use...tuning...rebuilding...modifications for power...ease of finding parts...price of parts...

I am assuming they are usually mated to a 901???

thanks

MJ

Re: 912 Engine newbie....
 

Hey there MJ,

I've read your posts on the 911 forum. I think that someone suggested a vw type1 engine for the spyder. Another popular engine setup for the spyders is the vw type4 engine.

Check out http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/ for more details. Jake has a couple of versions if the type4 specifically designed for the lightweight spyders.

Just another option to consider.

Hope this helps,

What Greenmonster said:D Lots more bang for the buck with a T4:)

Spyders suffer tremendously for lack of a close ratio gearbox so definitely think 901 5 speed. This requires abandoning the rear swingarms for the later V.W. IRS. The type 1 engine is more than enough power... great torque.... performance parts are readily available & easy to work on. Take a look at the spyder website to see what other owners are doing with their cars... Just about anything you can imagine has been done or is being contemplated. The Spyer is a great little car , and it is blessed with lots of space in the engine compartment

Could someone briefly describe type 1 , type 4 and explain why they may have more power than the early 912's.....just curious.
Jim in Ma.

Hey there Jim,

I'll try to explain this as best I can. I'm probably not going to be able to do it briefly ;)

First of all, the type 1 and type4 motors in stock form do not have more power the stock 912 motor. They will outperform a stock 912 motor only if they are modified.

The type1 motor was installed in 50-71 vw buses and of course the vw beetle. They came in various sizes (up to 1600cc) and in various hp levels (25hp,36hp,40hp,57hp??).

The type4 motor was installed in the vw type4 (hence the name) and 72-79 buses (and 80-83 vanagons). A more potent version of the vw big block (type4) was installed in the porsche 914 and 1976 912e. The type4 motor came in 1.7, 1.8 and 2.0 litre versions. My 79 bus's motor puts out 67hp stock. None of the type1 or type4 stock offerings came close to the 90hp of the stock 912 motor.

The aftermarket offerings for the vw motors make it easy to hop these motors up w/ the parts that are out there (cranks, rods, P&C's, FI, Webbers, etc. etc). Type1 motors can be bored and stroked from the stock 1600cc to well over 2000cc (2275cc and 2332cc are popular sizes). Likewise the type4 can also be modified to increase displacement and power.

I don't know much about the type1 (I'm a 2.0L bus guy, only kind of busses I've ever owned), so I won't go into details about the type1 motors.

So some Porsche owners have chosen to replace their porsche powerplants w/ a vw motor. Why have they done this, well most of the time it is because of the price. Vw engines are generally cheaper to build and maintain then a porsche engine.

Are the prices that much cheaper... I don't know. A well built type4 motor (2.0L) runs about $2500 for a stock rebuild (Boston Bobs current price). And AVP rebuild probably runs about $1600. This will get you about 70hp for a type4 motor (I've driven a boston bob powered bus and it felt that there was a little extra hp there tho').

Hi-performance rebuilts can be bought in turn-key form, but a 200hp type4 motor will probably run about $8000. See http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/ for prices on hi-perf type1 and type2 motors. For about $5k you can buy a 150hp type4 motor.

For more info on modified type4 motors, check out the type 4run at: http://www.shoptalkforums.com/ (also check out the conversion perversions forums and search on porsche or 912)

How much would it cost to build a 150hp-200hp 912 motor ?? I don't know (but if anyone wants to forward me a build sheet (specs) and price, cool, I'm curious now). A 1720 engine built right will put out, what??, 120-140 hp ?? Mein912, what does your 912 have for hp ( it does 16's in the quarter mile, so we know it's not stock, right :)

Summary: Nope, the stock vw motors won't outperform a stock 912 motor, but in modified form it's a different story. Heck, if you're looking for more performance, swap in a porsche 911 6 cly in it just like a couple of bus owner have.

If you have any other questions, feel free to pmail me at grnmnstr@yahoo.com .

P.S. Since you're in MA too... Know of any Porsches forsale (912's, 72-73 911's, or 78-83 Sc's). I've looked at the usual online sources, but usually the best deals are found "off-line". I've looked a couple of local pcars, but haven't found the "right" one yet.

Hope this helps,