65/66 912 Restoration

[Dave K]

I completely removed the interior and have moved to the dash area.
How do I remove the kick pad at the base of the dash? I looked underneath with my light and do not see any screws, etc.. Is it just glued?
Both dash and knee pad are torn, wavy needing replacing.
I appreciate your advice.
Dave K

[upwardr]

My 69 had nuts under the knee pad. Get on your back and slide under with a 10 mm wrench. I think what I did.

Hi Dave,

It's the same in the '65/'66. The first pic below is from the start of my same model year two years ago. The mounting holes for the knee pad are marked in red.

The other pics are from its current state with fresh paint and interior after many hours of welding, grinding, leading, making pieces of sheet which are not available.


I try to be as close to the Original as possible. Only the golden emblems at the engine lid was something to be able to recognize it from the many other polo reds ...

I'm working on the engine at the moment and optimistic as one should be with such a project - a good drink with Mr. Murphy helps keeping him in a good mood - I hope to be able to drive it this summer.











And the transmission ready to be mounted ...

[peter leinberge]

Hi Otto, I have a '66 too. My vin # is 452174 Is your car a Reutter or Karmann?
Mine was also originally Polo Red.
Now it's...rather dull.

[Dave K]

Beautiful Otto!

Polo Red is my original color also. Vin #370902, color 6602, july-august 1965 Porsche factory made.

I am so encouraged by your photos!

I hope to receive a perfect Polo Red paint job as yours!

The kneepad bolts are missing but when I ran my knife along the seam it burst apart with the smell of rotten flesh of the horse hair backing! Just petrified with the glue, backing and 47 years time! Clear metal with no rust!

Please write and send photos, I will do the same!

Grusse!
Dave Krein
Deutch Technic!

Originally Posted by Otto H. Wegkamp

Hi Dave,

It's the same in the '65/'66. The first pic below is from the start of my same model year two years ago. The mounting holes for the knee pad are marked in red.

The other pics are from its current state with fresh paint and interior after many hours of welding, grinding, leading, making pieces of sheet which are not available.


I try to be as close to the Original as possible. Only the golden emblems at the engine lid was something to be able to recognize it from the many other polo reds ...

I'm working on the engine at the moment and optimistic as one should be with such a project - a good drink with Mr. Murphy helps keeping him in a good mood - I hope to be able to drive it this summer.











And the transmission ready to be mounted ...

[Matt Monson]

Another member of the Polo Red club here, though mine is currently Bali Blue and won't get paint for at least 5 years. Too many other things needed first. 10/66 Production, Karmann built.

Matt, It doesn't matter what color they are, it's the fun they give us on the road! Bali Blue is a very nice color and if you like it why repaint it. Basic conserving these old beauties is of main importance.

The '65/66' has number 455 xxx, so from what I found it was build during the end of '65 at the Karmann plant.

Peter, pay attention to the sunroof. A good working one is a real joy on sunny days during spring time. My '68 cocoa brown has one and we love it. BTW, why not keeping these shades of grey and white. Just clear coat it and you will have a unique 912 ...

Dave, my work on the 912 has almost been finished so documenting it from now on doesn't make sense, I think. I made a lot of photos from several specific projects and parts, like rebuilding cv joints, leading, replacing specific seals and bushings, recovering the dash top - over 700 holes for the speaker - several "electrickery" problems and so on. So if there are any questions, don't hesitate and I will try to describe/document a solution as best as I can. With the comments and input from other readers we could make threads for specific subjects. This prevents chaotic threads with lots of posts with no relevance to the subject.

Well, regarding the paint job, it's nice but not perfect! There are some imperfections, but I hope I can touch up these when the car is finished and drivable.

Otto

[Dave K]

Otto,
Did you replace the floor pans and weld them yourself?
How much is the minimum lift required to do the job?
I have limited space!
Grasse!
Dave K

Originally Posted by Otto H. Wegkamp

Matt, It doesn't matter what color they are, it's the fun they give us on the road! Bali Blue is a very nice color and if you like it why repaint it. Basic conserving these old beauties is of main importance.

The '65/66' has number 455 xxx, so from what I found it was build during the end of '65 at the Karmann plant.

Peter, pay attention to the sunroof. A good working one is a real joy on sunny days during spring time. My '68 cocoa brown has one and we love it. BTW, why not keeping these shades of grey and white. Just clear coat it and you will have a unique 912 ...

Dave, my work on the 912 has almost been finished so documenting it from now on doesn't make sense, I think. I made a lot of photos from several specific projects and parts, like rebuilding cv joints, leading, replacing specific seals and bushings, recovering the dash top - over 700 holes for the speaker - several "electrickery" problems and so on. So if there are any questions, don't hesitate and I will try to describe/document a solution as best as I can. With the comments and input from other readers we could make threads for specific subjects. This prevents chaotic threads with lots of posts with no relevance to the subject.

Well, regarding the paint job, it's nice but not perfect! There are some imperfections, but I hope I can touch up these when the car is finished and drivable.

Otto

[peter leinberge]

Otto, I can't leave the car that color. It matches my hair.
Actually, my hair is whiter....

Peter,
you are Lucky! In my case there wouldn't be any paint on the car!

Dave,
I think most of us have limited space to work and store car(s), parts and tools for our Porsche hobby. I'm lucky to have a workshop/garage for three cars with a lot of space in the attic to store parts. And still I'm looking for a possibillity to get more...

One of my most valuable investments is a scissor lift, which can vanish completely into the floor. It takes about a quarter of an hour to take the wooden floor off to use the lift. I can lift the Porsches just enough to take the engine out and work more or less comfortably under the car. Perfect for restoration and future service.

Now to your floor pan question. Basically replacing the floor can be done with limited space under the car. First decide which part of the bottom has to be replaced. I guess you want the whole floor pan to be replaced.

Important is that you put the car on stands on a flat surface. The floor pans are partly responsable for the stiffness of the car - for a coupe less important than for a Targa but still important. Don't ask me how I know. Luckily it was not my Targa ...

Drilling most of the spot weldings from the original floor pan can be done from inside the car. Near the footwells you should cut the old pan. It's common that the sheet under the pedal unit is also gone. Some practising with sheet metal, hammer and welder should make a new part here.

Realize that the new repro pans will not fit perfectly. You will need a lot of clamps to testfit the pans and to decide where to cut and what to leave from the old pans, test fit again until you are satisfied with the result. I decided to weld the left and right part of the flor pan first and then spot weld it under the car. Welding the seam from below - it's under the tunnel - is not an easy job.

As with all the resto work, be patient and take your time for the job. Better check and check again than redoing the job. And realize that the resto will take you twice the time and money than you first expected to invest in the project.

Otto

[Dave K]

Thanks Otto!
You are so helpful!!
This sisccor lift works for the floor pans? It looks like the configuration of the cross members would impede access to some of the floor to weld on? No?
I want this to work because getting an industrial lift is out of the question and to have someone do it is expensive!
Grasse
Dave K

Originally Posted by Otto H. Wegkamp

Peter,
you are Lucky! In my case there wouldn't be any paint on the car!

Dave,
I think most of us have limited space to work and store car(s), parts and tools for our Porsche hobby. I'm lucky to have a workshop/garage for three cars with a lot of space in the attic to store parts. And still I'm looking for a possibillity to get more...

One of my most valuable investments is a scissor lift, which can vanish completely into the floor. It takes about a quarter of an hour to take the wooden floor off to use the lift. I can lift the Porsches just enough to take the engine out and work more or less comfortably under the car. Perfect for restoration and future service.

Now to your floor pan question. Basically replacing the floor can be done with limited space under the car. First decide which part of the bottom has to be replaced. I guess you want the whole floor pan to be replaced.

Important is that you put the car on stands on a flat surface. The floor pans are partly responsable for the stiffness of the car - for a coupe less important than for a Targa but still important. Don't ask me how I know. Luckily it was not my Targa ...

Drilling most of the spot weldings from the original floor pan can be done from inside the car. Near the footwells you should cut the old pan. It's common that the sheet under the pedal unit is also gone. Some practising with sheet metal, hammer and welder should make a new part here.

Realize that the new repro pans will not fit perfectly. You will need a lot of clamps to testfit the pans and to decide where to cut and what to leave from the old pans, test fit again until you are satisfied with the result. I decided to weld the left and right part of the flor pan first and then spot weld it under the car. Welding the seam from below - it's under the tunnel - is not an easy job.

As with all the resto work, be patient and take your time for the job. Better check and check again than redoing the job. And realize that the resto will take you twice the time and money than you first expected to invest in the project.

Otto

[Matt Monson]

Otto,
My existing paint is very nice, which is why I will not change it for 5 years or more. But the day will come when paint is required and given that I plan to keep this one "forever" the only color option that would be acceptable to me at that point would be original.

Matt,
Sorry, I was just kidding a bit about the colors, specifically the polo red. If I'm right then almost one third of the early 912's have factory color polo red. In these days a sports car should be red and nothing but red. For me it is such a nice contrast for my extremely rare cocoa (or coffee) brown '68 sunroof coupe. It took me some years to get used to it. I bought it because of its low milage and not for the looks. After all a good investment, because I never have heard of another '68 sunroof coupe in that color.

Dave,
Of course, a professional/industrial two post lift gives optimal working space. When I bought my first 912 I didn't know that a few years later I would own three of these German air cooled monsters, each with their own charm. Now, ending my second restoration - next winter I will start to work on the '78 Targa - I never regretted the investment in the scissor lift. Well, you have to move it back or forward to get it in the right position to work on the floor. But as I wrote in my previous post, most welding can be done from above. Sometimes you have to improvise to support the body in a way you can weld, grind or apply coating.

Below a pic from the beginning of my polo red. You can see the position of the scissor lift under the floor.

As an alternative for body restoration a rotisserie is an ideal tool. You're able to turn the body as a chicken on the grill. With some welding skillsand access to cheap steel and addiitional hardware it's easy to make. If you build one, start with a frame which supports the body perfectly and no torsion in the body can occur. I think a rotisserie only makes sense if intend to restore more cars. Apart from the resto work the rotisserie has no purpose anymore. A scissor lift is not only usefull for the periodical service, but also for changing wheels, cleaning/polishing the car and its bottom.

[C. Clark]

What brand and size lift did you buy?

[Jaems]

Here is the percentage of different colors in 66.

[Dave K]

Otto,
I also echo C.Clarke's question,
What size and brand of lift did you purchase for your 912?
The car is so light I wouldn't imagine you would need a truck size lift as most are advertised on the Internet.
Do the lift's that operate under a 110v household electrical outlet work?
With leaving the tires on the car it would add height to the 50 inches that some of the lift are advertised to make underneath more accessable?

You're brown 68 is perfect as I've seen photos!

I dream of my 65/66 being finished to such a state as yours!
It is a very early Porsche Factory made Vin 350902 July 1965 912 the is complete with running engine/transmission/clutch only rusted out floorpans and needs seals/paint!
Grusse!
Dave Krein

Originally Posted by Otto H. Wegkamp

Matt,
Sorry, I was just kidding a bit about the colors, specifically the polo red. If I'm right then almost one third of the early 912's have factory color polo red. In these days a sports car should be red and nothing but red. For me it is such a nice contrast for my extremely rare cocoa (or coffee) brown '68 sunroof coupe. It took me some years to get used to it. I bought it because of its low milage and not for the looks. After all a good investment, because I never have heard of another '68 sunroof coupe in that color.

Dave,
Of course, a professional/industrial two post lift gives optimal working space. When I bought my first 912 I didn't know that a few years later I would own three of these German air cooled monsters, each with their own charm. Now, ending my second restoration - next winter I will start to work on the '78 Targa - I never regretted the investment in the scissor lift. Well, you have to move it back or forward to get it in the right position to work on the floor. But as I wrote in my previous post, most welding can be done from above. Sometimes you have to improvise to support the body in a way you can weld, grind or apply coating.

Below a pic from the beginning of my polo red. You can see the position of the scissor lift under the floor.

As an alternative for body restoration a rotisserie is an ideal tool. You're able to turn the body as a chicken on the grill. With some welding skillsand access to cheap steel and addiitional hardware it's easy to make. If you build one, start with a frame which supports the body perfectly and no torsion in the body can occur. I think a rotisserie only makes sense if intend to restore more cars. Apart from the resto work the rotisserie has no purpose anymore. A scissor lift is not only usefull for the periodical service, but also for changing wheels, cleaning/polishing the car and its bottom.

[Matt Monson]

As Jaems has pointed out, I was going to add the light ivory. I have owned a '65 (rhd) light ivory, '66 light ivory, '67 polo red, and '68 light ivory.

Chas, Dave, Jaems,

I was a bit too optimistic about the popularity of polo red, but with nearly 20% it was a popular color. I did not know that light Ivory was even more popular.

Back to the lift. Realize that I live in the Netherlands, Europe and brands are totally different from the ones in the US. Most of these lifts sold here are produced in China or Poland and sold under different brands for aroumd $1500 - I've seen exactly the same ones in the US for that price. Standard mains in the Household is 230 V AC here and therefore suitable to supply the hydraulic pump without melting the supply lines. You need compressed air supply to unlock the lift to be able to lower it. Its lifting power of something like 2500 kg is more than enough for the average car.

Yes, theoretically it is a bit overkill for such a light car. My safety is more important than spending a few euros/dollars extra to survive my hobby. For additional safety I added an anchor in the concrete supporting the fixed part of the lift to prevent the lift to be turned over to the left or right side.

I would not put the car with its tires directly on the rubber lift support discs. That is absolutely not stable and unsafe. I sometimes use some additional wooden blocks to create a bit more space between the support and the floor pan.

Otto

[Dave K]

Thanks Otto for the information!
Could you be more specific about the anchor that you use on the lift so that the car does not tip one way or another? Is the anchor permanently affixed to the floor or make shift?
I want to use the tried and proven method that is safe and correct!
Your replies and opinions are very valuable to me as this is my first restoration and I have vowed to myself that I would learn and do as much as possible myself.
Grusse
Dave K

Originally Posted by Otto H. Wegkamp

Chas, Dave, Jaems,

I was a bit too optimistic about the popularity of polo red, but with nearly 20% it was a popular color. I did not know that light Ivory was even more popular.

Back to the lift. Realize that I live in the Netherlands, Europe and brands are totally different from the ones in the US. Most of these lifts sold here are produced in China or Poland and sold under different brands for aroumd $1500 - I've seen exactly the same ones in the US for that price. Standard mains in the Household is 230 V AC here and therefore suitable to supply the hydraulic pump without melting the supply lines. You need compressed air supply to unlock the lift to be able to lower it. Its lifting power of something like 2500 kg is more than enough for the average car.

Yes, theoretically it is a bit overkill for such a light car. My safety is more important than spending a few euros/dollars extra to survive my hobby. For additional safety I added an anchor in the concrete supporting the fixed part of the lift to prevent the lift to be turned over to the left or right side.

I would not put the car with its tires directly on the rubber lift support discs. That is absolutely not stable and unsafe. I sometimes use some additional wooden blocks to create a bit more space between the support and the floor pan.

Otto

Dave,

I've made a simple drawing with de principle functionality of the scissor lift and its safety anchor. One of the sides, where the hydraulic cylinders are fed, the lower tube has a fixed position. That is the one to be anchored in the concrete. The other side is rolling during lifting and lowering. I just give the idea of one side of the tube. The other side is the same but mirrored.

Of course this is just the basic idea. The final design will depend on the lift you will buy. Some models have the lower tube closed at both ends. In that case you will have to grind the the end off to be able to slide the safety tube in.. The basic idea can be used on most models. A bit of improvisation is needed. Don't forget to use a lot of grease.

For bolting the anchor to the floor I welded two 12 mm threaded steel pins on a plate in the concrete at each side. Each bracket is kept in position with 2 nuts.

The advantage of this system is that the lift still can be removed quite easily - the four nuts are removed in minutes.

I hope this is more or less what you wanted to see.