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Cool Newbie - Autocross Prepped 914 2.0

Hi!

New to 914 arena since last week as I just picked up a '74 Polar Silver 2.0. It's complete, non-running car that I hope to get going again enough to run some local Autocrosses when I can.

Unfortunately, no history or receipts whatsoever. Hoping I can find some history or PO's along the way. Going to need some help getting it started and will post up on another thread.

Here she is!!


Old 10-10-2018, 01:14 PM
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As I said on the Racing board, look up the VIN on the 914world website.

--DD
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Old 10-10-2018, 02:05 PM
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Thanks Dave!
It’s not on the list.
Old 10-10-2018, 03:17 PM
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So, I’ve been looking over the car since getting it home. Dropped in the new battery to see what I got. Lights pop up, blinkers, brake lights, hazards, gauges for the most part functional. Don’t hear fuel pump on start position. Checked voltage on battery and off coil and ok there. Checked and replaced all fuses, cleaned up connections, fuses one relay. Swapped out headlight relays to 2 missing spots on relay board. Heard a little noise on key turn right away, but went away after a while. The plugs, ignition components, oil look new. Dropped some oil in the cylinders and some starting fluid and gave a few rolling jump starts to see if it would catch. Turned over fine and almost sounded like it might start after a few more tries, but I ran out of help.
Took some pictures of what the engine compartment looks like so maybe someone can see something obvious. My skills are minimum and welcome any and all feedback.
Also, I might mention there is a green wire jumped from relay straight to what I believe is fuel sending unit. Also, i did use a screwdriver to cross the poles and starter did spin.
Any other thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0qoKNAxxyyIzDf6fUVfK7g4kA#Modesto
Old 10-16-2018, 08:44 PM
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The green wire is for the oil pressure gauge that a previous owner seems to have installed.
The round cylindrical thing with a hose at one end and the green and White wire at the other is the oil pressure sensor, one wire goes to the gauge and one goes to the oil light.

The fuel pump should run for about 2-3 seconds to build pressure when you turn the key on. One of the round relays in the engine room is the fuel pump relay (i dont remember which one) The relay board in the engine bay doesnt need to be full of relays, one empty place is for the heated rear window which was a very rare option. See this thread: 914World.com - The largest online 914 community!
Old 10-16-2018, 10:34 PM
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Thanks falcor!
Old 10-17-2018, 11:35 AM
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Only two of the relays are needed to run the engine. The other two are for the heater blower motor and the rear defroster.

You have D-Jetronic EFI, which is the original system to your 2.0 motor. The web pages at http://members.rennlist.com/pbanders contain pretty much everything that is currently known about D-jet.

The pump gets power from one of the two fuses on the relay board. I don't remember which one. That power goes through a relay, and from there it goes to the pump and to the Aux Air Valve which is the thing with two vacuum hoses just left of and below the center of image 7161 of your uploads. There's a single wire going into the bottom of it which is connected to the fuel pump power wire.

The fuel pump relay also uses the power from the "power supply relay" (another of those round relays) to do its switching, and also a signal (a ground, specifically) from the ECU as well. The power supply relay gets switched on by the power that goes to the coil.

--DD
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Old 10-17-2018, 07:55 PM
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Thanks Dave! I'll check it out.
Old 10-18-2018, 03:05 PM
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OK, here's the latest update.
Since the headlights pop-up were functioning upon key on, I put them in the relay board to see if the fuel pump would come on. It did not, so I put them back in the headlights only to find only side popped up. So, i have a bad relay. Put good one in fuel relay spot, key in 'on' position and I could hear fuel pump activate. Yes! Still not turning over at start position.
Read in other posts regarding seat buzzer relay could be problematic. Pulled back carpet behind passenger seat and see wiring going under seat. Cannot remove seat without removing roll cage to view entire assembly. Took a few blind phone camera shots best I could to see underneath. Felt around and did not locate buzzer relay, just main relay. Maybe PO removed?
In any case, I cut and merged big yellow wires together and tested ignition key.
Voila! Motor turned over several times and the smell of starter fluid! Didn't want to kill my battery, so I left it at that until next effort to diagnose what I think would be ignition spark problem. At least a little progress I suppose.
Old 10-19-2018, 09:28 AM
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Update:
Replaced all fuses possible, all new relays, cleaned battery cables/bolts again, cleaned starter cables, cleaned transmission ground strap at body contact point.
Tried to start with mobile battery starter charger and jump start with my other car. Same result: SLOW CRANK until NO CRANK.
Battery is new, 500cca on tag. I would think it's enough and jump starting to boot. Do I need to pull the plugs and see if it turns over quickly? Or pull the starter? I didn't have a helper to check voltage drop at starter when ignition turned off to on. Any other thoughts?
OK, so last night I jacked up the rear to tear into the starter, removed the cables and lower bolt. Upper bolt is a little tough to remove, but before I get back to it. will check voltage drop later today after work. I did however take a look around and found a wire under battery tray that looked tired. It is green/black with a white sheath and has a plastic connector that goes behind battery tray. It has a knot I believe in order to act as a grommet. Any idea what it is for? Trying to post pic...

Last edited by upon3pr; 11-02-2018 at 07:41 AM.. Reason: updated
Old 10-31-2018, 01:16 PM
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this is the wire...
Old 11-02-2018, 08:09 AM
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Oil temperature sensor for the gauge in the center console or on the dash. It should have zero effect on the starter.

For slow cranking, removing the plugs and turning the engine over by hand can give you an idea if it is mechanically locking up somehow. If you're hydro-locked, it gives the fluid somewhere to go as well.

If it turns over by hand with no plugs, then your problem is likely electrical. You can try shorting the big fat wire on the starter to the terminals the yellow starter wire is on. MAKE SURE THE CAR IS OUT OF GEAR. Nothing sucks worse than having the car lurch while you're under it, especially if it runs over you--it can kill you.

Anyway, this takes the whole ignition switch circuitry out of the equation so you're really just testing the starter and the high-power circuit for it. If that works fine, then your problem would appear to be in the ignition switch or the wiring to that switch and from there to the starter. On a 74 like yours, that roughly goes:
- Battery (+) post
- Red wire into main harness
- Ignition switch
- Yellow (may have red stripe) wire in main harness
- Dreaded Seatbelt Interlock Relay (under passenger's seat)
- Yellow wire (may have red stripe)
- Relay board
- Yellow wire
- Starter
- Transmission housing
- Transmission ground strap (top of trans to bottom of rear trunk floor)
- Chassis of car
- Battery ground strap
- Battery (-) post

--DD
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Old 11-02-2018, 09:59 AM
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Thanks Dave!
I just pulled the plugs and turned key and the starter is engaging and motor rotating rapidly. So, does that mean my starter is bad?
Old 11-02-2018, 12:58 PM
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So, starter is good. Put a starter/charger overnight to my battery(new, but sat for months) and it cranks solidly! Fuel pump is not coming on at key start. I jumped it from relay board and it runs. Drained fuel tank and grabbed a gallon of fresh gas.
Going to check for spark from coil wire before I try jumping the fuel pump and try for another start. Fuses and relays all good as I mentioned before. Iím thinking somewhere the circuit from ignition to fuel pump is faulty. If I check for voltage at fuel pump connection(plug) with the key position Ďoní, shouldnít I get a 12v reading? Or should it be hot all the time? I havenít messed with the ECU just yet and wouldnít think Iíd need to at this point since I donít hear the pump turn on for that 3 seconds or so. Hope Iím on the right track.
Old 11-11-2018, 07:40 AM
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The pump only runs for about 1.5 seconds when the key goes from "off" to "on"; it does not run the whole time the key is on.

Turning the key on should send power through the FI power ("power supply") relay to the ECU. The ECU should ground one of the pins in the four-pin plug which then triggers the fuel pump relay and sends power to the pump. Power for both of those relays comes through one of the fuses on the relay board, the rear one of the two there.

Do you get +12V at pin "I" (right-front pin) of the four-pin plug on the left-rear corner of the relay board when you turn the key on? That is the pin that sends power to the FI's ECU. If you don't see it there, check the fuses and the second relay from the front of the board.

Does the pump run if you ground pin III (left-front pin) of the four-pin plug with the key on? If so, then the fuel pump relay is working. If not, then double-check the pump relay, the third one from the front of the board.

--DD
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Old 11-11-2018, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave at Pelican Parts View Post
The pump only runs for about 1.5 seconds when the key goes from "off" to "on"; it does not run the whole time the key is on.

I do not hear it run at all

Turning the key on should send power through the FI power ("power supply") relay to the ECU. The ECU should ground one of the pins in the four-pin plug which then triggers the fuel pump relay and sends power to the pump. Power for both of those relays comes through one of the fuses on the relay board, the rear one of the two there.

Ok

Do you get +12V at pin "I" (right-front pin) of the four-pin plug on the left-rear corner of the relay board when you turn the key on? That is the pin that sends power to the FI's ECU. If you don't see it there, check the fuses and the second relay from the front of the board.

Yes +12v at pin 1 when key is on position.

Does the pump run if you ground pin III (left-front pin) of the four-pin plug with the key on? If so, then the fuel pump relay is working. If not, then double-check the pump relay, the third one from the front of the board.

Pump does not run if I ground pin III(wire to ground)
Relay is new and swapped with several othe new ones prior. I jumped fuel pump from pin13 earlier to see if pump runs and it does.
Fuses are new as well.
What next

--DD
See above^^
Old 11-11-2018, 12:47 PM
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Sounds like the fuel pump relay or the socket or the relay board is faulty.

Check that you have the following on the fuel pump relay socket:
- +12V at pin #30 (forward most pin)
- +12V at pin #85 (right most pin) when the key is on
- Continuity from pin #86 (left most pin) to pin III (left-front pin) of the four-pin connector at the left-rear of the relay board
- Continuity from pin #87 (left-rear pin) to pin 12 (right-rear pin) of the 12-pin connector on the right-rear of the relay board, and also to pin 13 (left-front pin) of the 14-pin connector at the right-front of the relay board

Some of those you have already verified, but this double-checks some of that and more besides.

--DD
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Old 11-11-2018, 06:52 PM
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Does this car have a Ford starter relay installed? If not would that help?
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Old 11-17-2018, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave at Pelican Parts View Post
Sounds like the fuel pump relay or the socket or the relay board is faulty.

Check that you have the following on the fuel pump relay socket:
- +12V at pin #30 (forward most pin)
- +12V at pin #85 (right most pin) when the key is on
- Continuity from pin #86 (left most pin) to pin III (left-front pin) of the four-pin connector at the left-rear of the relay board
- Continuity from pin #87 (left-rear pin) to pin 12 (right-rear pin) of the 12-pin connector on the right-rear of the relay board, and also to pin 13 (left-front pin) of the 14-pin connector at the right-front of the relay board

Some of those you have already verified, but this double-checks some of that and more besides.

--DD
Thanks Dave. Will check those out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fly Mach .86 View Post
Does this car have a Ford starter relay installed? If not would that help?
No it does not. If it's an issue, I'll consider the upgrade. Thanks!
Old 11-28-2018, 02:43 PM
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After reading a few comments on the boards regarding 'backfire at startup', I tried to adjust the timing a tad and set the EFI Box control dial about center. Tried another go at starting and same result, seemed likes starts up fine and runs a few seconds(maybe enough to burn the starter fluid) and then BOOM, the backfire in the intake. On a second try I put the throttle to the floor and cranked it. Shortly after I heard a 'poof' sound and ran back to the motor and see that there is a small fire around the throttle body. I had my extinguisher(that I bought last week after reading so much about making sure I had one present when trying to fire up this beast that's been sitting) and a couple of squirts and it's out. Luckily no major damage to any wires in the area.
This was last week sometime and I needed a break from it (mostly a little nervous, contemplating my next step).
Rewind 2 weeks, I met fellow car enthusiast last month at the local EuroSunday meet. I friendly little Italian fellow that drove up in a Alfa 4C with his wife. A former factory trained BMW mechanic and basically a real old school gear head(He owns 23 cars,currently working on an Alfa 74 GTV, Volvo 1800 and a Ferrari V12, the last 2 clients). I told him about my little project then and took down his number. This week I called him and he helped me for about an hour plus. We did some backyard diagnostics and he tracked my problems down to the relay board. I pulled it and noticed some indication of extreme heat damage and he started in on removing the tar. I've got it cleaned up so we can solder(re-solder) the joints, test and re-seal it if its good to go.
Here's a shot of it. Let you know the progress soon.

Last edited by upon3pr; 12-09-2018 at 09:53 PM..
Old 12-06-2018, 01:24 PM
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