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Germain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Michigan
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Ideas for my 2.0

Hello,

First off I would like to tell everyone here that the information I have found on this site has been a life saver (money too). I just recently aquired my 1973 914 2.0L Porsche, and would like to save it (its kinda rusty and the drive train needs some work). I am willing to spend somewhere around 5-6K this winter on it. Now for the questions:

1) I've heard on this BBS that headers increse performance, but require the heat exchangers to be removed. Well, my heat exchangers are shot, and so is the exhaust, so where can I get headers?

2) I've looked everywhere for a supercharger for this car, but cannot find one. Let alone I need to change the FI to measure mass air flow. Is there a supercharger unit available for the 914-4's? I don't want to use turbo, because then I'm stuck with more heat I have to figure out how to remove.

3) My car handles kinda sloppy. Now I used to have a Stealth before this, so I might be perceiving things wrong. I can say this though, the entire suspension is stock. So what would be the best modifications for it?

Thank you all for your help already.

Germain
Old 09-17-1999, 04:16 AM
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Let me first say that I've some experience with turbo charging and after rebuilding my '73 2.0L I have these opinions.

Supercharging and turbo chargin a vehicle basically involve using the waste haet of an engine to compress more air/fuel into the engine. This process boosts efficency of the design and thus the performance boost.

However the cost is greater stress and HEAT HEAT HEAT. My BMW 535i that I turboed thows massive ammounts of heat, and that car has a high output oil and water cooler. Think about that an aircooled four would do! Yes turbocharging the bug engines was done some and yes the flat sixes did as well. But if you look at everything that's been done to the 2.0L you are approaching meltdown!

All of the engine longevity, esp the VERY RARE heads, comes from heat. For this reason alone I would stay away from any forced induction on a twin trunk. The turbo bugs I've seen all run sans rear lid with many air ducts to help cool.

As for handleing, I'm sure others will have much better opinions, I went with new bilsteins all around. Blamo, no more wallow or wag.

Good Luck
Ian
Old 09-17-1999, 05:40 AM
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On the issue of handling, i've driven a friend's stealth before. Granted that it was a couple of year ago, but if memory serves, the 914 handles MUCH better. Check to see if your 914 is already equiped with sway bars. If not, give tom and wayne a call, that's probably your best handling upgrade. wider, lower profile tires help a bunch too.

Headers, the word is Kerry Hunter

work - 505.623.1581
home - 505.622.2803
mobile - 505.626.7911

i was quoted $350
maybe you'll get yours befor i get mine..

Jeff

[This message has been edited by oredith (edited 09-17-1999).]
Old 09-17-1999, 07:23 AM
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The first thing I would do is STOP THE SPREAD OF RUST! Since the car runs and stops, that can be worked on as time and money permit, but the rust will spread and can eventually kill the car. I would recommend using POR-15 products, they are on the web as I learned from JP they are better than anything I have seen. Then, I would recommend doing things in the following order: brakes, suspension, then power for obvious reasons.
Old 09-17-1999, 08:15 AM
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I would like to disagree with Ian on the fact that a supercharger does not run off exhaust. A supercharger is much better in the respect that they are cooler running and they are easier to work into a stock engine because they run off a belt, they don't use the engines hot oil to cool(contradictory statement.)In the long run they are cheaper to operate because they don't require as much maintinence. I have talked to several supercharger companies and they said they would do custom one off runs for about 4-5K. I'm assuming if there were more than one or two people getting it done it would be considerably cheaper. Any takers on this adventure?
Old 09-17-1999, 08:28 AM
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Check my earlier posts on the supercharger stuff. To paraphrase. CBperformance FI, the sand/turbo intakes, 911 fan shroud, Vortech V5. I still need to get the supercharger braket done.
Old 09-17-1999, 08:51 AM
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John Rogers is right. Fix the rust first, for one thing it can cost more than you may first think, and that will re-adjust your budget. Also it is a bad idea to put more power and handling stress on a chassis that isn't up to it. There are people who have had a suspension console fail while driving, it ain't a pretty picture.

Next I would look at better brakes, either the 320i conversion ($250-$400) or the 911 five lug conversion ($500-$1500 plus wheels) before more power. Then look at repairing all the maintainence items like shift bushings, engine mounts, tie rod ends, bearings, end the exhaust.

I know I'm about to start a war but I'd stay away from headers for the street and go with some SSI heat exchangers for a 73-74 2.0L and a Bursh muffler. As I'm sure we'll this is more of a preference thing then anything else.

SSI+Bursh=little more power than stock, and a barable noise.

Headers+SuperTrap= more power than the Bursh, and you'll be all the rage with the high school "boy racer" crowd (you'll also be popular with the cops)
Old 09-17-1999, 10:52 AM
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Bursch + SSI's = nice barble as mentioned above. As long as you dont rev it while at a stop light with a constable within a 20 feet radius you'll be ok. However the Bursch is a heafty chunk of metal I only wish there was a way to get something lighter that would give me heat and be street legal. But try to fix the rust first, I did as much as I could to preserve my car so atleast my chassis integrity is not compromised. When I get the opportunity I'm going to strip the car down completly, put it on a rotissere and do it right.
Old 09-18-1999, 07:18 PM
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Ok, remove all rust (check)

Now I planned on doing the brake thing, but I have yet to find power brakes for it, and that is what I'd really like to do. I see it this way, if I'm going to dump money into brakes, why now make them superb? Of course if I can find power brakes, I'll prob goto the 911 brakes. So any ideas on power brakes?

And thank you everyone for the info so far, I just got finished with the engine and trans and there ready to go back in the car I've just got the frame under the battery, exhaust, and battery plate to fix first. Thanks again

Germain
Old 09-19-1999, 06:36 AM
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Power brakes require a booster powered by vacum. some of the boost units are small but would be very difficult to in stall in the tight confines of the master cylinder. Then you would still have to build enough vacum to make them function. If the vacum system fails, OH BOY!!#*@^*# I'd stay away from that.
Old 09-19-1999, 08:24 AM
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Hear Hear, power brakes require too much effort to install and maintain. The 914 is a light enough car that power brakes dont serve much purpose. You should really try to install 911 brakes, however that's $$. But they provide the stopping power you may be looking for. If you want to save some money take a look at the BMW brake install article on Pelican's own website in the tech article section. Also you could install a 911 master cylinder which could hold you over. I have steel braided hoses on my car. I check to see if I have any leakage underneath the car before I ride. No trouble yet and I've had them on for about 1 year. Even in the most extreme cases like autocrossing I dont hear about people installing power brakes.
Old 09-19-1999, 02:08 PM
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Maybe Mike (zois) will chime in here, I got to ride/drive in his 3.0 today at Don & Glenn's get-together.. packs a punch.. but more, he's got the 911sc break setup in there.. and that thing stops on a dime.. depending on the use of the car, the 911 setup might be a bit too much on the pocket, but it sure would be nice to have on my own car.

ps. what happened to you other so cal guys that didn't show up?.. i know there's more than 25-26 of us down here.. hell, mike drove from Santa Barbara to see us..

Jeff
Old 09-19-1999, 02:21 PM
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The $$ weren't that bad....deducting the 19mm master cylinder, the braided lines and the shocks (I used konis), the five lug Fuchs which were already on the car,
anyways...the conversion ran me about $350...

[This message has been edited by mikez (edited 09-19-1999).]
Old 09-19-1999, 03:14 PM
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It seams as though those of you with experiance think the the 911 brakes are the ones to go with, so I'll take all of your words on that one and try to install some 911's over winter. Thanks again everyone

Germain
Old 09-20-1999, 04:29 AM
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More opinions for ya:

Supercharging doesn't use the exhaust-heated air to compress the intake charge. But it still compresses it. This heats the intake charge, and effectively raises the compression. I wouldn't do it on a 2.0 motor. Maybe a 1.7, since those seem to be really cheap, but not on a 2.0 with those expensive fragile heads...

On the brakes, the BMW ones should do you quite well for a bit. The 911 ones are really sweet, but the BMW stuff will haul you down in a hurry.

On the handling, the tires have a lot of effect. Some 205/50-15 sticky rubber should help that a lot. If the handling is "mushy", the bushings could also be at fault. Try to wiggle all the suspension bits. The bushings for the semi-trailing arms in the rear are a part of the arm (they are vulcanized to it) so you either replace the arms to get new rubber bushings, or you go SQUEAKY aftermarket.

Good luck, have fun and be safe!

--DD
Old 09-20-1999, 11:37 PM
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O.K. here's the deal on turbocharging a 2.0
First, use low compression pistons, (8.0 or lower) or use thicker base gaskets. Second, limit the boost to 6 p.s.i. with premium pump gas. Third, run the carbs or f.i. rich on the top end for cooling. Fourth, limit timing to 25 degrees advance at 3000 r.p.m. max. And one of the most important, get all of the exhaust pieces ceramic coated by jet-hot. This keeps the temperature down in the engine compartment. Try to retain as much of the original sheet metal as possible. If done correctly, a 2.0 can put out as much as 180 reliable horsepower on 92 octane pump gas.
Warning: do not try to run 12 psi of boost on pump gas! Anyone interested in why I say this can come over and help me put my engine back together. As with anything else, too much of a good thing is still too much.
Old 11-23-1999, 12:03 PM
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Turbo you run carbs on your setup, but how would something like this work for someone who wants to retain the stock FI?

Old 11-24-1999, 06:28 AM
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You can still use your stock FI by adding a
device called an "Extra Injector Controller"
a couple of companies sell them, the one I've been looking at is made and sold by : Simple Digital Systems.(http://www.sdsefi.com)
The company that sells the supercharger kit for the Boxsters uses something similar, when the motor reaches a predetermined boost, extra fuel from the supplemental injectors will be added to prevent a damaging lean condition.



------------------
Mike Mueller
Antioch, CA
1970 1.8
Old 11-24-1999, 10:19 AM
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Yes you can add injectors, it may even require it after a certain h.p. It would require at least one (TBI) or four (MPI) fuel injector bosses, and like you said, an electric control unit.

Most of what I've seen are FMU's (Fuel Management Unit). The FMU is a device that attaches to the fuel rail down stream from (sometimes replacing?) the stock fuel pressure regulator. Under normal conditions the stock fuel pressure is used. While under boost the FMU has a diaphram that senses when the boost is on and proportionally blocks the return line, increasing fuel pressure. The injectors duty cycle is the same but the increased fuel pressure makes them flow more, to a point.

As one might guess this isn't a shade tree piece of equipment, and I don't know if any one makes one for a 914 turbo. The ones I've seen are from Paxton and Vortech for domestic EFI engines, some of which are "speed density". Similar to the D-Jet in that there is a BAP (barometric Air Pressure) and/or a MAP (manifold absolute pressure, similar to a D-Jet MPS) and airflow is calculated instead of being actually measured by a vane meter or a heated element mass airflow sensor.

BTW this assumes that the fuel injectors are flowing like new, and the fuel pump is high enough capacity. A cloged injector or a low lph pump can cause things to go lean.

Another thing to consider is either an electric ignition that retards timing under boost, or finding out if something mechanical like the 930 dizzy can be used.

A few years back in Excellence magazine some guy had a tube frame 914 that used the turbo setup from a Mustang SVO. It was and EFI 4 banger so the conversion made sense. Maybe do some bone-yard picking and get an intercooler to work with the setup. Lots of Japanese cars had intercooled turbos or four bangers. Use some choped up Type-IV bus exhaust with 75-76 914 exhaust manifolds, a little welding....

As "Turbo 2.0" implied, there will be a learning curve (i.e. "BOOM!!!") so starting with a 1.7/1.8L is probably the best. The 1.8L has larger valves than the 1.7L and lower compresion to boot.
Old 11-24-1999, 07:22 PM
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