Vortech Supercharger Kits

[Jim Osborn]

I'm planning on obtaining a supercharger unit by itself and R&Ding some brackets and pulleys to make it work on my 2.0L Type IV. I also plan on putting together a fuel injection kit to work in unison with the blower. I'm wondering if any one would be interested in getting ahold of a kit once I was completed. I plan on doing this within the next six months. The blower itself is $1650, keep in mind this is buying from a local speed shop and that I could probably get them cheaper if I were to buy more directly from Vortech if this flies. Is there a market for this?

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THE NIGHT TIME IS THE RIGHT TIME

***AGENT 009, JAMES BONDO***

[This message has been edited by Jim Osborn (edited 02-10-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Jim Osborn (edited 02-10-2000).]

[mike mueller]

Magneson (sp?) qouted me $850 (new, but cosmeticly challenged) for a positive displacment supercharger, very similar to the ones on the supercharged GM cars and Ford T-bird.

Try calling Vortech and ask if they have any that have cosmetic flaws or if they have any refurbished units(warranty repair?)

I know one person that might be interested, I'll tell him to check out these posts.


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Mike Mueller
Antioch, CA
1970 1.8

[Jim Osborn]

The reason I chose the Vortech unit was because of it's small size and fact that it was Centrifugal which makes it easier to fit in the engine compartment without obstructing the Fuel system.

[John Rogers]

Would your setup look like the engine on Pauter's home page? http://www.pauter.com/, I think it is on one of their custom block engines, but it sure looks wild! Imagine, blower whine on a 914....

[Jim Osborn]

That what I'm talking about. Blower whine on a 14! Forget the 911 chain whine. The 911 owners are gonna be the ones whining! LOL

[paulhagedorn]

Sounds like something I would be interested in if you could get it to be pretty much bolt on everything and a few little tweaks here and there.

If you go through with trying to get it together, please post and tell all about it. Granted, it would probably take you a while.

Paul

[mike mueller]

I'm not knocking the Vortec, the magnuson is small also, it's designed for engines in the 1.5 to 2.0 liter size range.
Do you plan on running an intercooler as well?
As a side note, if you want that blower whine without the extra cost of the blower, straight cut gear cams are available instead of the helix cut gears. (gear drive for those american v-8 guys)


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Mike Mueller
Antioch, CA
1970 1.8

[JP Noonan]

If your going to do it "right" look into Mark Stephans Hi-Po. They make a 6 head stud system. They had an introductory deal, might still give it to ya. I figured about $1000 to do it, but I think I was counting on doing head work at the same time.

Also talk to Web Cam about a blower cam. The make blower specific cams for just about every other type of blown motor.

IMHO a high current ignition would be mandatory. I like the Crane Hi-6 for the price but MSD is good too. Read good things about Jacobs, but sounds almost too good to be true.

If the Mageson is what I think it is, then it's a Eaton/Roots style. Great for low end torque on a heavy Jag or T-bird with a torque converter, but the high whinding Vortech (BTW what about Paxton? they're cheaper and use a separate oil supply instead of heating up the engine oil. Also when you DO blow up the motor it won't contaminate the blower with spun bearings. Also Powerdyne makes a ceramic bearing SC that uses no oil) acts more like a turbo. More lag but it's easier on the fragile 1st gear.

An old Excellence (3-4 yrs back) had an article about a guy using a Ford Mustake SVO fuel injection on a turbo'd 914. It would take out a lot of guess work, although you'd still need to figure out the fuel curve, either by reprogramming the EEC-IV or by screwing with a fuel management unit (FMU's adjust fuel pressure in proportion to the manifold pressure by blocking off the return line increasing fuel pressure. i.e. more fuel from the injectors from the smae duty cycle)

Oh BTW you do realize that the motor is going to blow, then the trans, then the half shafts, then... but it'll be fun I'm sure

[Jim Osborn]

I've taken that into consideration but it will be fun and I'm sure i'll be reinforcing things as I go along. Anyone else wanna have fun too?

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THE NIGHT TIME IS THE RIGHT TIME

***AGENT 009, JAMES BONDO***

[paulhagedorn]

I am sure that someone has done it before, but I have a 1.7 engine that I could use, which would be better than my 2.0...

Does anyone know what kind of HP can be achieved with a decent cam, a big bore kit, and carbs...for a 1.7l...i am guessing about 1.9?

thanks,
Paul

also, to go even further, put a turbo/supercharger on it?

[mike mueller]

I like the supercharger idea, but I don't have that kind of money for the initial investment.
And since the turbo has been done a few times I'll have a little bit of R&D done for me.One fellow (Sam Gore) down in the Southern Cal. area is running one right now, so far it's been pretty reliable. He hasn't had any dyno time and I'm not sure if he's really run up against any other 914's stock or modified to campare it too. He feels it puts out an honest 150 to 175ish hp.
I'm getting my turbo in a few weeks, then I'll start the R&D process since I'll be doing it differently than Sam has on his car.
His is a pull thru design and I would like to make mine a push thru design. I have a couple of extra 1.7 engines to experiment on, just in case.

Jim, you might want to call "Superchargers of Knoxville" (sp?)they build S/C kits for 911's and 944's, maybe they could help you out with any questions you might have.




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Mike Mueller
Antioch, CA
1970 1.8

[John Rogers]

The system Sam had was at an autocross a short while ago and while it seemed to work okay there are several items I would worry about. As you mentioned it was a pull-through, the air/fuel was mixed in a carb then compressed into the engine. A push through would probably give slightly better fuel distribution/mixture, but in either case compressing air with fuel mixed in is like making a bomb. I would most definatly use fuel injection to shoot the fuel into the combustion chamber since it would give better control of the mixture and would be safer. The other thing I noted was there was no intercooler and that coupled with the exhaust lines going up on top of the engine made things VERY hot. Neat to experiment with though.

[ViolentBlue]

I'm experimenting with a Bosch K-Jetronic Fuel injection system, this setup is as easy to setup as they come (no fi brain, just an airflow sensor) this is on a 1.7L engine, down the road I'm planning on building it out to 2.0L (or buying a 2.0L and swapping out) and adapting a turbo and intercooler. I'm sure that if you're going to turbocharge this type of engine a intercooler is a must.
as for the FI system, its been done before check out this URL http://www.dolphinsci.com/cis-fi.html

[turbo2.0]

I think this was just a test to see how long I could keep my mouth shut. Well I can't, so I am going to throw my opinions in the pile. Yep. A pull through system is not the best. It works, it's simpler (read cheaper) to build and install, but it has limitations and problems. One is the fuel mixture problem. The turbo acts as a centrifuge and seperates the air/fuel at low velocities. A smaller problem is the inability to use an intercooler. The big one that I am fighting now is the fact that the turbo sees not only pressure, but vacuum. Neither are a big deal, IF the turbo seal works correctly. If the turbo is shut off when hot, the oil cooks, and can leave a layer of carbon on and around the seal. This intermitant smoking can lead to some very embarrassing moments. Have you ever been lined up in pre-grid and look back to see every one behind you coughing? Kind of hard on the ego, especially when the problem only happens three times over two months and you can't figure out why. Some turbo's don't even have a seal. they have a "piston ring" (This type can not be used in a draw through system). Under high vacuum, the oil tends to be drawn into the intake and cause smoking. See, I knew my rings were o.k. Under pressure, a leaking seal can allow air into the oil (imitates blow by, see rings). A seperation canister will take care of that. Just a tin can in the oil return line with a vent on top. I have been mulling over a lot of ideas on how to build a "perfect system". All it takes is cubic dollars. It starts with a push through turbo, into an intercooler, down through the stock throttle body, and then into the stock intake manifold. The injectors may have to be replaced with larger capacity injectors. The brains are an SDS programmable system with a mapp sensor, and a crank fired ignition run off a hall sensor with magnets installed in the outer edge of the flywheel. It also includes a knock sensor to further retard timing when needed. Total cost should be about $2600 not including a stock D-jet engine or labor. Even more hp could be obtained with an additional injector mounted in the plenum used to add a water/methanol mixture under real high boost. Fast, but not really streetable, IMO. BTW, at 7 psi boost the intake charge would gain around 100 degrees over ambient and only after prolonged full throttle operation (based on turbo software), which is not usually the case on the street. An intercooler is really neat, but would probably only lower the temperature about 50 0r 60 degrees in this case. Would that help? Sure, a little. But intercoolers really start to make a big difference at higher rates of compression. A high boost 914 engine can be a grenade unless it is a billet motor with all the goodies. Way out of my league. Back to reality. There are two real limiting factors as far as boost go. Heat and fuel. Air cooled motors don't like extra heat, and hp means heat. It can be contolled, as long as we don't get greedy. Fuel quality today sucks (did I mention I work for an oil company?) Detonation under full boost also sucks. If it's a street engine, you gotta keep the boost down, unless you have a very elaborate computer contolled everything. Sorry for going on so long, but this is a subject that I have been obsessed with for six months now.
And no, I don't think I have it all figured out. I still have several bugs in my turbo system that are driving me nuts, but hopefully I will get it eventually.


[This message has been edited by turbo2.0 (edited 02-12-2000).]

[Jim Osborn]

The way I figure it, a good fuel injection system coupled with a good ignition system and an oil cooler should keep the beasts of detonation and heat at bey for sometime. My motor is fresh so I shouldn't have any problems for quite a while. I only plan on doing about 6 PSI at first. Anything has to be better than what we have now right? It sure beats the price of a six conversion even if you end up replacing the engine with a Mark Stephens six stud anyway right? I have nothing to lose in doing this so if it goes right yeah I have a kick ass four banger, if not then I start over and fix whatever went wrong until I have it right. That's the way it usually goes doesn't it? Well that's why I'm doing the R&D.

[72_914]

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM, looks good to me. Imagine this sticking out of the back!! Might turn a few heads.

[paulhagedorn]

It would definitely turn a few heads...but I think it just would be a rendition of the pos chevy's and ford's. Not to my liking if it is going to be sticking out of the engine compartment. But that is just my opinion.

I am one of those guys that goes for the conservative look.

Paul

[BIG DAVE]

I KNOW THIS IS AN OLD SUBJECT. WITH INCREASE BOOST YOU WILL GET INCREASE COMPRESSION. TO MAKE YOUR TURBO WORK AND KEEP THE ENGINE ALIVE WOULD YOU NOT HAVE TO DECREASE THE COMPRESSION?

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BIG DAVE

[turbo2.0]

The mechanical compression depends on the amount of boost. More hp is possible on pump gas with lower mechanical compression and higher boost. Ignition timing also plays a big part. I have learned many of the things that can and cannot be done without hurting the motor. Most of the guys (and gals) here are probably tired of hearing about my engine, so if you are interested in talking about it, e-mail me and we will talk.

[Alpine]

I've heard that these people http://www.procharger.com might make a supercharger for air-cooled VWs.

Alpine