Chassis stiffening kit installation

[skline]

Ok, I got the kit with all the pieces but no instructions on how to weld it in. The boxed trailing arms were easy as they only went on one way. I have all these pieces and some are kind of self explanitory. But there is so many pieces I have no clue what goes where. Anyone with some instructions they can email me? Please?

[Zeke]

Scott, do the ol' search thing, it's here.

I'll walk you thru it from memory: The biggest arch piece goes over the axle, there is a piece above it, behind it and in front of it. Knowing that, you can see where they go. The pieces all fit flat except two and you can beat any piece in tighter after tacking. The piece above the biggest piece (a cresent, IIRC) needs a little tampering to get it close to the body. The last piece, which has the most complicated shape, fits above the rear control arm between the bushings. That area is concave and you really have to beat the thing in there. No one I know has ever made that one perfect and pretty. Once tacked on the edge of the concaved area, one leg goes down the body, parallel to the ground, and toward the rear. It is at right angles to the pieces in the wheel well that are over and in front/behind of the axle. The rest of the complicted shaped piece gets pounded into the concave. You must get the concave close, or the control arm won't clear.

I'm sure words don't make it perfectly clear, but by the time others chime in, you'll get it. The original instructions were not much better than none at all.

If I still had my car, I'd take pics. Email MikeZ and see if he'll take pics of the concave piece. If you use the search word "manfred" on 911BBS, there are some of his pics of the flat pieces.

[skline]

Thanks Milt, I got the kit and sat down to check it out at the Chalon, but I just couldnt see where everything went. I want to start getting this car ready for the V-8 conversion. Pictures would really help a lot. I did do a search and came up with only a few but they were no help at all.

[Zeke]

Never mind the search. I was wrong, so here's the pic I was thinking of:



The cresent shape is just above in the pic. And the last 4 inches or so has to be bent as you see on the biggest piece. There is one in front of that, but maybe not behind it. Anyway, it's fairly plain to see once you get a couple in place.

Notice the 911 M caliper and vented disc. (no ebrake)

That's ischmit on the BBS in the pic.

[Zeke]

If you look over to the left of this pic, you can see the concave above the control arm. It's hard to see, but there is new metal up in there and you can see my welding bead at the far end (towards the outside).



Another pic: the new metal is right above and just to the right of the yellow band on the brake line. That whole concave area is covered with the new perforated metal. If Mike will shoot a pic straight up in there, you will see.

[914rick]

Scott,
Here are some pics that might hep.
Rick

[914rick]

another

[914rick]

opps, another

[Zeke]

That's it! Good job. There is one more piece over the main (biggest piece) that is a cresent. Are you not using that piece?

Rick, good post, welcome to the board.

[914rick]

Yes, there is another piece that is specific for a 6. It looked like a real b---- to install, I have a 4 so I skipped it.
Rick

[lmcchesney]

Scott, Zeke, Rick,
Good postings and direction. Would you complete the discussion by providing guidance of when you need to use the stiffener kits?
Scott, it would seem that your indication would be for the increased weight the V8 will apply to the longitudinals and the effect of the increased weight will play on the trailing arms. I have read several post on this subject, but they seem to begin with the decision to place the stiffners and now why.
What symptoms occur to inticate the need for stiffners?
Is there a condition of the longitudinals which would suggest the use of stiffners?
What test can be done to determine the need( 300# friend sitting in the driver seat with the door open and then cannot close the door)?
IF you place a jack on the longitudinals and can lift both front and rear wheels, do you need a stiffner?
Do you always need both stiffners(trailing arm and body)?
What if you have a roll cage in place?
What if the roll cage does not tie into the rear trailing arim mount?
Thanks,
L. McChesney

[914rick]

lmcchesney,
I had purchased the kit some time ago along with the Trailing arms kit thinking that some day I might have them installed. Over the past year I have read many threads on this issue and the thinking seems to be that they are a waste of time. Over this past winter, I sent my engine to Jake for rebuild. I noticed some rust areas in the engine compartment that needed to be cut out and new metal welded. I contacted a great welder and I decided that as long as he was going to fix the engine bay, why not repair the longs, then why not repair the door sills. I spoke to a Porsche macanical engineer and discussed the stiffing kits as I was waffleing on that idea. His comment was, I have always wanted to get a 914 and some day I will. I would drive it like you do Rick, Occasional DE events and auto x's. The car was made as a sports car, not a racer, and therefore would put any/all stiffing items that I could on the car including welding a sturdy roof on the car. That said, I had the kits installed at the same time. I can clearly feel a differance in the stiffness in the car but the real test will be at the track next month. I went from a 1.7 engine to one of Jake's 2270s which is a neck snapping toqurie engine and I am pulling MUCH more g force just on the street. I sometimes feel that I should drive around the neighborhood with my helmet on
So, at this point, I am happy that I put the kits on but again the true test would be at the track. I hope this help.
Rick

[sean_V8_914]

sometimes it is hard to tell what to believe on line. alot of guys type stuff as if they have experienced it but really its just a second hand story that may not even be true. I dont think porsche would have spent engineering resources on a stiffening method that did not make sense. most of the guys at the track in prepared class and up, add this to their car. Thanks for teh installation guide photos

[lmcchesney]

That is what I suspected. Take a guy with a 1.7L and do a tune up, maybe european cylinders and man, he can't believe how much quicker that car is. It's like a self fullfilling proficy. I have yet to see true numbers regarding the stiffing aspect. Mine was purchased in Maine about 6 years ago. Had some superficial rust which the boys and I atacked that first winter. Yeah, 30°, under the car, going through light bulbs like there was not tomorrow. Anyway, while I was in Chicago, I had Brad Mayer look at the car. He was impress how well preserved the chasis was. I just cut out the wheel wells for my GT flares and replaced the rocker panels, I was really impress with the new like state of the longitudinals. When I first purchased the car, for a safety upgrade, I had a stable engine full roll cage welded in. Thus, pretty imposible for my cab to flex. I'm in the process of building my 96x78 combo and am anxious to see the outcome. Nice to hear you have one of Jake's 2270's. Jake and I had a rifff today, so I'll stay neutral.
Bottom line, I just can't find real data to define when or if reinforcement is needed.
L. McChesney

[sean_V8_914]

track time. drive one with, then one without.

[914rick]

L. McChesney, Just a little update. Since my last post, my neighbor, the PO of my car (for 7 years), asked me to take him for a ride with the new engine in. He had a good time and was very pleased with the new power. However, what I found interesting was his comment after going on a twisty road, "boy, Rick the car seems much stiffer now, did you do something?". It is interesting because I had never told him about installing the stiffing kit. I am sure that a roll cage adds stiffness to the car but I'm too big and too old to be crawling over it . I am not sure what numbers you are looking for but maybe you could share the numbers on the roll cage, I'd be interested. I don't believe that there is a condition for which you need a stiffing kit, I think of it as simply an upgrade. As far as the trailing arms kit, I think that most guys agree that they do flex under a load and that the kit eliminates that. The down side of it is if you spin the car and hit something against the trailing arm with the kit, you will probably bend/break the ear off instead of bending the trailing arm which is much easier to repair/replace. Also, your comment "That is what I suspected. Take a guy with a 1.7L and do a tune up, maybe european cylinders and man, he can't believe how much quicker that car is." leaves me somewhat perplexed. I have driven a 914/6 (stock) and a few 911s (without mods), and being as objective as I can, there is no comparision with my new engine. It will flat out eat them up. Sorry 914/6 & 911 stock guys but it's true. I went from 75hp (on its best day) to about double that with the rebuilt engine and hardly think that was do to "a tune up, maybe european cylinders". I sincerily hope that your engine rebuild comes out as good as mine did and then you will see what I am talking about. Good Luck.
Rick

[Jake Raby]

Well I'll be damned.... What have I been saying all along??

LOL

Rick, thanks for the testimony- Thats not an engine, its a masterpiece!

[Alfred1]

Originally posted by skline
Ok, I got the kit with all the pieces but no instructions on how to weld it in. The boxed trailing arms were easy as they only went on one way. I have all these pieces and some are kind of self explanitory. But there is so many pieces I have no clue what goes where. Anyone with some instructions they can email me? Please?

Anybody know if Pelican includes instructions with their chassis stiffening kit ? I was skeptical about the kit until I read in one of my 914 books (possibly Brian Long's) that Porsche installed stiffening pieces on some of the race 914s.

[skline]

Well, I just want to say thank you to everyone who replied with pictures and stuff, It will help me out a lot. So thank you to all and you may now carry on with your weekend.

[Jake Raby]

After this, I'll be adding a stiffening kit to my car also.. She makes 181 BHP and has Konis all around with needle bearings, so it should really like it...

Next comes the brakes, after I rip the engine out and make a *few* changes, time for a new test!

- Squishies!