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Vanagon swap

I have a 73 914, with no motor in it....I'm looking to pick up a Vanagon 2L......can someone tell me if the diaphram clutch from a vangon works in the stock sideshift tranny/1.5 HP starter. Are the MM's the same.
Also I've seen some with a top Alternator.....will that work/fit in the 914 engine compartment?
Any other helpful info would be appreciated.
Old 02-17-2005, 09:52 AM
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isn't the 914 diameter 215mm while the vanagon is 228mm?

isn't the "alternator on top" really an air pump? i have an 81 vanagon and the motor "looks" just like a 914 motor, alternator included.
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Old 02-17-2005, 09:56 AM
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Thanks.....
Then will the flywheel have to be changed over to mesh with the starter, or to even fit inside the tanny housing? or will the Clutch just need to be changed?
Ahhhh so that's what that was...I looked underneath but didn't see any alternator. only 1 belt on the engine fan too.....My mistake.
Old 02-17-2005, 10:03 AM
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Don't know about the 914, but my Vanagon uses a hydralic slave cylinder on the clutch.
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Old 02-17-2005, 11:53 AM
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I believe that the flywheel and clutch will need to be changed to the 914 version. There is also a pilot bearing that is different; I forget which is in the flywheel and which is in the end of the crank.

If the Vanagon motor is late enough, the exhaust ports will be of the "square port" kind, which mean you have to custom-fab an exhaust to fit, or get Chris Foley's Tangerine Racing Super Header for square-port heads.

And remember, the Vanagon motor only makes about 65-70 HP.

--DD
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Old 02-17-2005, 01:59 PM
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Check out KEP, they might have the clutch parts you need.
Old 02-17-2005, 02:17 PM
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Ok..
What you need is an entire clutch, pressure plate and clutch disc for the 914.. It will bolt directly to the crank of the vanagon (they are the same) and will drop the engine directly in.


The Vanagon uses a 228mm flywheel and pressure plate AND an oddball starter. If you cut corners you'll have all sorts of issues.

If you are trying to do this the cheap way I have gobs of good used stuff off of core engines for cheap..
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Old 02-17-2005, 07:02 PM
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hydralic slave cylinder for clutch? Will this work on a 914?
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Old 02-18-2005, 07:50 PM
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Sure if you can fab the hydralic part by the clutch petal. Hard to do but its been done.
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Old 02-18-2005, 08:15 PM
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I once looked at buying a teener with a bus motor..As I recall the clutch was activated by the standard cable set up...I could be wrong...
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Old 02-19-2005, 03:49 AM
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Yes, it works putting a bus motor in a 914 but you have to swap in the flywheel off a 914 or the starter wont work.
Lots less hp installing a bus 2.0l (68hp) vs a 914 2.0l (95hp) too. I have driven one and it was like driving a bug, no power!

Geoff
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Old 02-19-2005, 04:22 AM
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Just a correction on this thread, it's kinda old and outdated info, but it turned up in a Google search as I was looking for a fresh flywheel for my new 2.0 motor.

I have had a 228 in it for the last ~6 years and ~120K miles.
I have needed to adjust it 3-4 times (counting engine swap to new car and later tranny replacement), suspect cable stretch more than anything else.

The Vanagon 228mm clutch fits/works perfect in a 914s 901 with only the addition of the input shaft bearing, required reamed and fit as a 914s std one would be.

If one is installing a Bus motor (probably 411 as well) it will have the bearing in the crank--- It MUST come out, completely, as the nose of the one in the flywheel will poke into the end of the crank, and Bad Things will happen.

Bearing installs...Thick part with lettering goes OUT, otherwise the input shaft will shatter the paper thin rounded part when trying to install engine.

The 228mm bus/vanagon/914 starters are THE SAME PART NUMBER, with the only "oddball" of the later Vanagon ones being a very long power stud on the starter solenoid.

The 228 can take ~140+ HP, stock, and if the pressure plate seating surface of the flywheel is cut down deeper .010", 160+ is reasonable. (Info per Mr. Raby)

The std 228mm Vanagon clutch discs have the same spline as a 914 input shaft as well.

The whole thing is an (almost) direct swap, only the input shaft bearing requires installation. The original 914 flywheel bolts MAY be a thread or two too long and bottom out, you must check.

KEP sells HD plates and discs for the 228 used for even V8 installs.

Last edited by piledriver; 12-02-2007 at 10:24 PM..
Old 12-02-2007, 10:10 PM
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So, why does the Vanagon motor make so much less hp than the 914 motor?

What would you upgrade in a Vanagon motor to make the same HP as the teener?
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Old 12-27-2007, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Long Nose View Post
So, why does the Vanagon motor make so much less hp than the 914 motor?

What would you upgrade in a Vanagon motor to make the same HP as the teener?

Mostly? Compression ratio and head flow, some combustion chamber shape and plug location.
(both had 2.0s, the 1.7 and 1.8 914 T4s vs the bay Bus engines were almost identical except for the pistons and dipstick location, breather ports in the rocker boxes etc, IIRC the 914 motors usually had a windage tray, that's about it)

The displacement, rod length crank and most other details were essentially identical.

Oddly It appears the Vanagon plenum/TB with 914 2.0 runners may be worth more than a few HP vs the stock 914 2.0 setup, better plenum shape.

(Long thread over on the STF about that, quite interesting)

http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=102542

The Vanagon motor had tiny valves, (same as the 1700) even smaller runners/ports, deep dished pistons to lower compression and thus power in order to keep it from melting down. (only marginally successful)

The Vanagon is a 5000 lb shed on wheels, and it put a beating on the poor little T4, even with a slightly better fan housing.

Based on the fact you are asking the question here, assuming you want 914-level performance from a transplant, use 914 pistons and have some 42 or 44x36 heads made up... Jake Raby and Len Hoffman make CNC copies of the 914 heads based on the AMC castings (the heads are junk straight from AMC, crap valves and seats) and offer serious improvements over what was available 30 years ago. Adrian at Headflow Masters can make good heads too, I've been told European Motor Works can do so as well.

One of Jakes customers 2270cc kits broke 200HP (crank) awhile back, Jake is still trying to figure out what was "magic" about that particular only slightly nonstandard combo, as he is prone to do.

Said another way, put 914 heads, pistons and the solid lifter cam on a Vanagon block/crank/rods and there is for all intents and purposes no fundamental difference in the engines...

... other than one has a closed breather, and you'll have to figure out some way to fill up the oil if you run the vanagon block. (engine mount bosses are 10mm on the Vanagon as well, have to add a dipstick etc, but that's all relatively minor details)

Keep in mind that a Vanagon engine took a serious beating in it's first life, might not be the best choice to start with, but if that's what you have and it IS in decent shape, all T4 blocks are interchangeable, only differ in some minor details like the oil system reliefs for the hydro blocks only have one relief valve (which is actually a feature, the second should really best be disabled on earlier blocks) TRY TO SAVE THE FACTORY JUGS FOR REBORING.

If you happen to want a 100 HP T4 that might last awhile in a Vanagon, that's going to be tougher, probably a 1700 headed 90.5x78.4 with Nickies cylinders has some reasonable chance of long term survival, using an aftermarket EMS of some sort.

Last edited by piledriver; 12-28-2007 at 01:21 AM..
Old 12-28-2007, 01:05 AM
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