anyone ever gone subaru?

[mtndew342]

On my way to work a couple of days ago I was thinking about engine swaps for my 914 when a Subaru impreza RS passed by. Now what would be involved in putting a Subaru 2.5 litre engine in compared to say a standard 6 cylinder swap? Also, what about the Engine Subaru puts in it's SVX? thats a 230 hp flat six isn't it?

[odie]

KEP...that's Kennedy Engineered Products in CA. They make adapters to connect any engine to any VW or Porsche transaxle. Including many of the Subaru motors. I'd be willing to bet that Renegade, Rod Simpson and Red Dawg/PRO SCA all get their adapters, flywheels and clutches from them.

KEP ONLY make the adapters/flywheels/cluthces. Anything else for your swap you will have to make or locate.

[Roland Kunz]

Hello

browse the net or the old rennlist Archives.

I had seen one SVX equiped VW Bus in germany and it looks like the factory made it. Good thing on the SVX is the 70 000mls spark plug and the hydraulic lifters keep the maintance low. Not sure if you will reach all the plugs in a 914.

Grüsse

[morgan]

Here's someone who's done a subaru. A few pics and some description of the swap as well as info on putting an rx7 motor into an MG.

http://geocities.com/mg12a/

This guy used a turbo but any idea what kind of power you can get out of a naturally aspirated four cylinder subaru? Do you think there is much center of mass benefit from using a flat engine vs. inline?

[mtndew342]

Well, I was looking at putting their 2.5 litre RS engine in there which is about 150 hp normally aspirated, and you figure there is a whole aftermarket rice burner industry for performance parts...so I'm sure one could squeeze 250+ hp given enough time and money.
I like to think that the flat "pancake" engines make a pretty big difference in the cender of gravity since if you look at it Porsche has used them in all of their 911's and the Boxter. And if you think about it any weight you can move down lower the better right? Anyone else have a better answer?

[slide]

I have been dealing with subie motors since 95. The 2.5rs with a stock cam and stock compression can only reach 2oo-210 hp. Thats with all the bolt on mods you could think of and with a programmable computer. If you run a turbo, well anywhere from 235- 335 hp is very easy. Expect to worry about compression at about 285 hp though.
The secret on the 2.5rs motors is getting them more fuel. Except the '98 with the phase 2 engine. With that ecu\engine match, you need to lean it out from 3000-4800 rpms.

[mkinne]

Mtndew342 -

I've also just recently started looking at subaru motors. KEP does make the plate for both the 2.2 and 2.5. I've heard the later 2.5s are better than the early one, but no one has explained why. I don't see much subaru stuff in the rice mags, but check out a sand sport magazine. The subaru 4-cyl seem to be very popular with the sand rail crowd. There are a couple of shops in Cal building monster turbo 400+hp 2.5s! Talked to a guy at one shop (Funco) who said the subaru fours are all very reliable (much more than air cooled VWs). He also prefered the 4s over the 6s (little more power, lots more weight). Don't know what it would cost to get a complete junkyard 2.5 w/ all intake, electrics, brain, etc because I haven't been able to find one. Apparently, all the wrecks are scooped up by the sand shops before they get to the junkyards.

All that said, does anyone know of a specific reason why a subaru 2.5 (or 2.2) would not be suitable in a 914? Length and width look OK, but what about oil pan? Hangs too low?

- Matt

[Adam]

Guys,

Look for one of the Japan-spec import motors. I don't know what kind of emissions you'll need to meet, so I don't know if it's viable, but the EJ20 series 2.0 turbo motors have a minimum of 220 bhp. In STi form (forged pistons, hollow stem valves etc) are 282 bhp. A stocker can easily be brought up to around 360 bhp!!

You can buy them here in Australia (in half-cut) form for as little as $5000.... or $2500 US including ECU etc etc.

I'm looking to do such a conversion myself...

AC

------------------
Adam Chaplin - 1976 911 Coupe
My Pelican Gallery Page
My Owners Gallery Page

[djs]

In addition to owning a 914 and subscribing to this BBS, I own a 1987 VW Vanagon camper and subscribe to the VW Vanagon BBS. The use of Subaru engines as alternative power plants is a common denominator for both 914s and Vanagons, albeit for different reasons.

Subaru engines are somewhat popular with some VW Vanagon owners as an alternative to the stock water-cooled flat four that VW developed in the 80s for this vehicle. The VW mill (known as a wasserboxer or "wbx") was based largely on the Beetle Type 1 engine with enlarged bore & stroke and water jackets. Later models include electronic engine management, as well. It's a good engine, although somewhat infamous for blowing head gaskets if the incorrect coolant is used for long periods of time. Its main shortcoming is that it makes only 95 hp, and Westfalia campers can weigh in excess of 4500 lbs, especially if they're 4WD Synchro models.

So, many owners consider an alternative powerplant when it comes time to perform major repairs to the wbx. Some like inline-four VW mills, of which there are many to choose from, including those variants found in Audi cars. And there are full conversion kits on the market for just such conversions. VW's inline 4 engines are pretty bullet-proof and some can be made to scream.
Other people want to retain the flat-four form factor, low center of gravity and inherent balance of the flat engine, so the Subaru engine is attractive for that. And as previous posters have stated, Subaru engines are quite robust and variants can make quite a bit of power even in their stock form.

The 2.5 Subaru liter seems to be the engine of choice, from early to mid '90s Subaru Legacy cars. The SVX six-cylinder has also been used, but this engine is not nearly as common, and is a lot heavier.

Conversion to Subaru power is not to be taken lightly. One of the major challenges is adapting the wiring harness for use in the new vehicle. Subaru ignition and fuel injection systems/components have little in common with VW/Porsche; most components need to be retained for use with the Subaru engine, as does the engine management computer. This is a major project!

As far as I know, Kennedy Engineering makes only the adaptor plates that mate the engine to the transmission, and the parts related to this function. Other engineering and fabrication is done by the vehicle owners themselves, including motor mounts, cooling system plumbing, wiring harness adaptation, etc.

Sorry if this is a bit off-topic (VW/Vanagon content and all)

Dan

[slide]

To the question about popularity between older and newer styles of the 2.5's:
The phase I 2.5 used the same heads as the 2.0 turbo. The heads are identical minus the cams. The problem was flow. the need boost. Running N/A couldn't keep max velocity in or out. The phase II heads were sohc and designed 2.5 na specific. Now if you have a phase one, and get better bump sticks and raise the compression, thats the way to go. As for keeping it stock, they are both the same. Maybe 7-8 more hp down low on the phase II. If you are going turbo or raising compression and cam mods get the phase I if you can find it.