914-6 conversion: Do it or not?
 

Hi folks,
Just new to the board and new to the 914-phenomenon. I have a 73 2.0L 914. The been rebuilt with the euro-motor specs, racing clutch, and Bursch exhaust.
Just don't know what goes into a 914-6 conversion or should I not even think about it and just enjoy what I have.
I've been reading a few articles on excellence magazine about 993 motors in 914's. Just curious what type of motors are usualy placed in the 914's for the 6-cylinder conversions? What costs am I looking at ($$$)?
I like to hear from the folks that have done the conversion and even from those that have thouht about it.
Thanks,
Xerxez

I'm sure you will get tons of opinions on this, it comes up here all the time. Here's mine.

A 6-conversion is whatever you want it to be. The cheapest I can imagine you can do it will probably cost a minimum of $5K - and it won't be very pretty. To do it "right" depends on what your view of "right" is - for me, that would be a conversion that would end up costing about $15K at a minimum.

I've opted for keeping my 2.0L and enjoying it. It's a pretty interesting motor, and I'm probably going to build a 2.4L injected motor sometime just for the hell of it - and it will be a drop-in installation and will probably not cost me much more than $5K by the time I'm done with it.

To summarize - it's worth it if it's worth it to YOU http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif

Brad Anders

I've been thinking about a 914-6 conversion too. I know I have a nice car already, but the 6 cyl just keeps calling me http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif I would say it'd cost about $15k to do the whole thing w/ good pieces. I am planning on going for a 3.0 engine. Has anyone worked w/ Motor Meister...their kit looks really good. I'll probably do the brakes and 5-bolt conversion first...this will also split up the costs!
Who knows I might have some 2.0 4-bolt Fuchs wheels for sale some time http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif
Brad is right, the total costs all depend on what you want, from a 2.0 -> 3.6L engine, heat or not, nice external oil cooler, upgraded chassis + tranny etc. Just set your sites, get some money saved up and go for what you want!

Nathan
PS: Jake makes some really nice big type 4's so that is also an option w/o going for the 6.

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'73 2.0 914

I've worked with MM. I used their kit for my conversion, with the exception of the engine. Rather than opt for one of the pre-packaged engines, I went with a strong upgrade on a 2.7. Pretty pricey, but well worth it, once we get on the track!
http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate...on N 2 (2).jpg

If you'd like the full story, just e-mail, and I'll get back to you.

Nope, I would not do the six!! I'm a "four- loving" guy!

A few considerations:

The cheapest I have ever heard of it being done was for $5K, and that was with a ton of wheeling and dealing on the parts. The result was a nice little Six with a rather tired 2.0 liter 110 HP motor, tail-shift tranny, four-lug wheels with stock brakes and 195-width tires, and so on.

On the other end, you have the $50K+ car at the following link: http://www.pelicanparts.com/914/914_photo_gallery/Karl_Johnson/johnson_914.htm

I'm guessing that a "mild" conversion will run you $15K, and that the folks planning on doing 3.0s for this kind of money are going to be a bit surprised when they add up their receipts. You can trim costs by doing more of the work yourself, and costs will increase (potentially a lot) if you have someone else doing the work.

The 3.0 motors need a special flywheel to fit the 914's transmission. The OD fits the tranny bellhousing, but it has the mounting holes of the later flywheel. The 3.2 and 3.6 require a different special flywheel, which is evidently less common and more expensive. Particularly, if you want to run the DME FI, there are specific bits of the flywheel that need to be there.

The 901 tranny is not up to a whole lot of torque. It'll cope with a stock CIS-equipped 3.0 pretty well (just ask MikeZ), and I know one or two stock-FI'd 3.2s who use 914 gearboxes, but much more than that and you'll start running into trouble. Tony Inae on the 914 Rennlist has broken several 914 gearboxes with his 3.6 DME motor. I'd guess that with a 3.2 you'd have to baby things a bit.

The next upgrade (and it's fine for anything short of a BIG V8 or a hi-po 930 motor) would be a 915 gearbox from a 72-86 911. Mods are required to make it run correctly in a 914. Look into the prices for the ring and pinion flip, the clutch linkage design and fab, and the gear shift linkage design and fab, before you decide to go through with it. And check into how the different designs of shifters feel--the one that I've driven is really awful.

There are other considerations as well, of course. Check out the "914 conversion" section of our website, it has a ton of info on the subject. http://www.pelicanparts.com/914/914-6_construction_kit/914-6_construction_kit.htm

--DD

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Pelican Parts 914 Tech Support

A few pics of my car: http://www.pelicanparts.com/gallery/Dave_Darling

me too, im with jake on that one....the maintence will be a real pain in the .... thats whats nice about the 4 cylinder. And you can still make it fast, not like you havent already with euro-parts.

I have a 76 914 2.0 that I just rebuilt to "Euro" specs, great motor with that said I would do the 6 in a heartbeat. I remember reading about a conversion that when it was done was close to 50K but the owner said something that stuck with me, he said that at night with top off and the dash lights lit there we nothing better than to be in a great handling car with the sound of the six right behind his head. I can imagine just crusing with the mechanical whir of that incredible piece of enginering.
Neal

Thanks everyone for the replies! The FAQ's on the Pelican web page on the 6-conversion was helpful and all of you that gave your 2-cents worth was definitely more valuable than that. It is just very hard not to "TINKER" when you know the car has more potential that meets-the-eye. Here's a link to my web page and some pictures of the 914, my other fun car, baby-boy(#3), and even my grandma: http://www.dentalarts.com/xmc/914/album1.html

Hope this works!

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Xerxez
73 914 2.0L
Sunflower Yellow/Blk/Blk

http://members.home.net/mtz1/index.html

Over 30K in it and I sold it for 12,500.

It still runs great, the 3.0 was a little more than stock DDDDD....

Headers, 964 cams, massaged heads etc.....prolly 250hp.

If I was to do it again, I would buy someone else's project for pennies on the dollar.

I only sold it cause I wanted to do something different. I really miss the old rocket....

I have done the conversion. I started with a 3.0 and have installed a 3.2 http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif I love the HP. It is not cheap to convert correctly.

I love my car, but I could be talked into selling it...

In the near future, I hope to be converting 914-4 to 914-6s for folks.

I met a guy with a freshly completed, professionally-built 3.2 conversion street car the other day...he said he had about $35K into it. And, he bought the project car pretty cheap ($5K) with some of the conversion work already well underway.

I have been contemplating the conversion issue myself for quite some time. I have a bunch of money into my /4 already, and to do a race-prepped conversion the way I would want it would probably bump me well up over $30K into the car. And it would be a hell of a project in terms of time and energy beyond the money. I probably wouldn't be able to drive it for a good 6 months if not longer, at the rate I do things.

For $20-25K I can buy a hardcore, fully sorted 914/6 race car, ready to drive, probably even with a trailer too. The kind of car that somebody spent $40-60K to build.

No contest....unless my 2.0 blows up and forces the issue, I will be buying my /6 rather than building it.

Chris C.

Hi Xerxez,
I see you're already planning things for your 914... BTW, we're on for Pomona this sunday. May I suggest we take your van in case you bring back a motor?

OK, I'll definitely bring the van. Give me a call at my office and maybe we can check out your new 914 prospect car?
Xerxez

A six? I say if you are going to do a conversion, why leave off two cylinders :-)

I think a six would be great, I love the sound of a good one wound all the way up.

I just can't justify the price of doing one. I'm with Mikey, find one that some other poor fool has already filled with money.
I see them occasionally for under $10k in the recycler (www.recycler.com part of the L.A times).

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Gerald Gore II (Sam)
73 914 350 small block

I think converting to a six is a stupid idea that makes no financial sense whatsoever.
I have prepped my car for the increased horsepower and am now patiently looking for the 'right' engine/parts opportunities. I'll wait for at least a fresh 2.7 or 3.0 or 3.2.




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-- Dave
Pics of my '73 project here: http://members.tripod.com/mike4g/dds73_b4pics.htm

The cost of my conversion was under $6500 if the *extras* (we ain't talkin' CD players here)are factored out. The motor was a used
2.4L T motor (carbed) @ $2400.

I have a list of parts/costs/suppliers...."Gods Own Parts List" if anyone wants it.

The list is no longer current as another round of mods brought me a 2.7L with all the crap.....er.....stuff that was needed to keep it cool.

As for buying a completed project......mixed feelings. One can save a considerable amount of money, but...you run the risk of... ah....shortcuts that the PO took.

Another observation (or 2)
140 hp (the 2.4L) kept me happy for about a year. Horsepower is addictive. An external oil cooler is needed for anything over 160 hp or so. The cost rise by about $1k in this situation (it can be done cheaper.....see shortcuts, above). 210hp is mo better.300 hp would be mo better if it didn't involve cast iron.....

Type 4 poopers are not in this league and are hand grenades when the attempt is made. Hey, I ain't trying to sell ya somethin'.

Any attempt to recoup the cost of the conversion will fail. Figure 30 cents on the dollar, if you do it yourself. You really have to want it.

JPIII

Let's see, a stupid idea that makes no financial sense......that's an oxymoron.....

Any Porsche makes no financial sense. If you don't like horsepower and getting a stiffy while blasting thru corners on rails and doing warp nine, then buy a Buick....Dad.

Read more carefully Mike.
It is a financially stupid idea that I plan on implementing. (only if it's near 200hp.) Really liked your white car by the way, its more or less what I want to do.
BTW, that wasn't an oxymoron, just somewhat redundant. "And" would have been more appropriate than "that".
Also, please call home, your mother misses you and she's embarrased that you'd discuss your stiffy on the net. http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/wink.gif
Love, Dad.

PS - you can no longer borrow the Buick.

Ah c'mon....no one will rent a me a room to take Griselda out on prom night. The Buick's back seat is bigger than our dining room......ah geeezz.....

Puhleezzzee, can I take the car....????

http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/biggrin.gif


But seriously, buy someone else's project and save some money.


[This message has been edited by mikez (edited 07-15-2001).]

Don Newton! What's your e-mail address? I'd like to know all the details on your 2.7 conversion. I've finished the whooooa and am starting on the goooooo!

This should get a rise, Talk about making no sense.... You could always have a Porsche V8...... http://www.d.umn.edu/~jrichar4/alien.htm


[This message has been edited by rich (edited 07-15-2001).]

A little recap before i talk about my conversion. When i got my 1974 2.0L, its all i wanted. But when i disembled the engine - its was fuming blue - i got some surprises. Pistons/cylinders were gone, as were rings. Main bearings and cam and lifters were worned. I estimated at around 1K (1500CAN$) at least for a basic rebuilt. Then i said to myself: my 914 isnt in a very good shape, a lot of bodyowrk was needed. So i cant count on reselling it as a good exemple. Why not invest that 1K into a six conversion? Even a 2.2T one? With limited HP? The sound of a six of course.

Whats more is that after reviewing some classifieds site, i thought that maybe i could resell some of the 2.0L parts. From now on, ive sold more than enough to cover the price on my 6 engine and i still have a lot of parts. Heads (300US$), SS exchangers 250US$), muffler (50US$), p/c’s (100US$), injectors (80US$), MPS (90US$), fuel pump (no yet), alternator (30US$) are good parts that resell easily. The others i tried Ebay .. with goods results.

That made me into the conversion. At this time. the engine is in and will be attempt to start anyday. I have fabrcated my owm sheet metal. Was about to do the same with the oil tank - Michel Richard is doing it, keep you posted on this - and the engine mount. But as my parts were selling weel, i bought them. Enough trouble to convert, lets save some.

I cutted corner some places. Some parts are functional but not pretty. For example, i used the stock 911 oil lines. It works but it is a bit less pristine that braided lines ive seen. I estimate that my cost are at around 2K right now.

my experience is viewable at
http://www.farleydw.com/914.html

Will be updated this week

Don Newton: How did you get around the reliability problems of the 2.7? Wondering if this would be a nice engine for my future conversion.

Rich: What ever happened to that 914/928, I haven't seen or read an update on it in months!

farleyd: That has to be the least expensive conversion attempt I've ever seen. Keep us posted on how it all works out!

Nathan

The issues regarding the 2.7 ALL arise from the factory use of thermal reactors to comply with the then-existing smog laws here in the states. Once those have been removed, and yes, you've time-serted your case (see above), you have a very nice engine. My engine is a race only engine. No thermal reactors, time serts done, plus other go-fast mods, I have a fairly light weight, high performance engine! Of course, I'd like to have a 3.6, but I don't really want to be a moving traffic cone for the GT-1 guys!

Don,

What class are you racing? I'm putting a 2.7L conversion together, mostly as a driver with some autox and DE events. I'd be interested in what class and competition the 2.7L puts you in.

I'm a GT-4R (PCA) kinda guy. Once I had all the suspension, brakes, safety rig, engine done, it just "made sense" to go to slicks! The best thing about competing with a 914 is that once it's set up correctly (or correctly for me), I have dead neutral handling characteristics, extraordinary levels of adhesion (I run a front and rear roll/anti-sway bar and have the Oh My God chassis stiffening kit), and lots of punch! I'm really pleased with the torque this engine generates, and peak horsepower is really nice on the straights where at 6600 rpm, I'm cooking at ~140mph. I've also found that the momentum management skills we develop when the car has anywhere between 80 and 100hp are put to good advantage with greater levels of horsepower. Because of the low CG and good power-to-weight of this configuration, I think you'll be very pleased, and remember: Frank Williams already has his drivers for next year. Just go have fun!

I updated the page of my 6-conversion. Coem take a look and let me know!

http://www.farleydw.com/914.html