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lbreen
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: chicago, il
Posts: 23
74 2.0 64k mi. IDF44 webers.

Hi, Just wanted to maybe get a diagram of the plumbing for the fuel lines. I have put rebuild kits in carbs(webers). Put a 7 lb faucet pump. When the line goes to the carbs, from the pump, I have a tee between the two, that goes to the old fuel regulator and then returns to the tank. Car runs rich and pops a little. Runs pretty good for the most part. Sometimes it's sluggish, sometimes not. I did have the timing checked and carbs adjusted after all this. Plugs are never very dirty. Can smell gas though. And uses plenty of it. Around 8 mpg as a close guess. Thanks for any ideas. lbreen
Old 10-01-2007, 02:34 PM
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Location: SoKal
Posts: 194
Well.......

Your Webers like to see about 2.5 - 3Lbs. of fuel pressure MAXIMUM.....

And you will need a gauge to measure that. Or buy a fuel pump specifically for your Webers that puts out the appropriate fuel pressure.

Most of the time.... Carbs don't work too well on the factory recirculating fuel system

44 Webers are pretty big for a stock 2.0. Yet they will work with the appropriate Vents (Venturis), jetting and float adjustment.

I'm sure DD will be along shortly to expand on this. (He's good that way)

Do you know what Vents, Jets, E-Tubes (emulsion tubes) and what your floats are set at?

If not. You will need to find out if ya want to get your carbs set up correctly.

That will also include setting up your linkage correctly so BOTH carbs open up simultaneously.

You will also find out your timing MIGHT work better if you advance the timing a bit more than stock (Like 2 degrees) Play with your timing to see what works best. Once a stock engine is carbed. The factory timing isn't always the best to use. (But it's close)

Do you still have the stock Dizzy? Is your vacuum advance still hooked up? if so... How?

If you don't have a stock dizzy... What do you have?

Heeeee... heeeee... I could go on forever.

Get back to us on what you have. And let the brain trust here try to help you.

Cheers,
Twystd1
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Old 10-01-2007, 09:21 PM
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King Broinyo
 
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You need to lower the fuel pressure and lean those 44's out. Those are almost too big for a 2.0L. 7lbs is way too much.
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Old 10-02-2007, 02:39 PM
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Sorry, Clayton, but carbs == black magic to me... No habla los carburettors.

--DD
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Old 10-02-2007, 05:55 PM
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lbreen
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: chicago, il
Posts: 23
Hi, Thank you for your replies. When I put the rebuild kit in, it was a kit from Weber, I believe. It's been a couple of years. It was for 40's through 44's. I don't know what size the jets were. It had float valve, new filters, gaskets and many assorted parts, and I want to say it had needles. Could be wrong.It came from Italy and was not very costly. Carbs were cleaned and blown out, before new kit and small intake filters put in. Put a small gas filter before pump. The dizzy doesn't have a vacuum advance, and I guess it's original. Put a blue coil in. I tried to load a picture, but it didn't work. Could I remove the original fuel pressure regulator? I reasoned that it was creating more pressure. Would that be necessary? Thank you much, Larry
Old 10-02-2007, 06:00 PM
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lbreen
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: chicago, il
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Hi, Sorry to bother everyone. Can I remove the stock fuel pressure regulator? And go with out one. Thanks lbreen
Old 10-03-2007, 03:11 PM
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King Broinyo
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lbreen View Post
Hi, Sorry to bother everyone. Can I remove the stock fuel pressure regulator? And go with out one. Thanks lbreen
The stock fuel pressure regulator is not suitable for the carbs to begin with. They are designed to run at nearly 30psi for fuel injection.

Do not run the carbs without a regulator. It should be easy to find a regulator at any auto parts store.
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Old 10-03-2007, 03:22 PM
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lbreen
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: chicago, il
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Thank you, I will start out with a regulator and pump.(less noisy)Thanks lb
Old 10-03-2007, 04:02 PM
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Ibreen.

No need to buy a new pump IF you get a regulator that will dial down to about 3 psi fuel pressure.

OR you can buy a 3 LB fuel pump and run NO regulator. Your choice.


I highly suggest you buy the weber tuning book on Eslay or Pelican or wherever it's sold.

Then pull your jet stack with E-Tubes, Idle jets and vents and find out what size they are.

Then report back.
And we can help ya from there.

By the way.. It is imperative you find out what Dizzy you are running. The numbers are located on the aluminum base of your dizzy. You might need a little mirror to see them. My guess is that you may have an 009 dizzy. Which absolutely sucks in stock form on a TYPE IV engine.

So check that and get back to us with all the info as well as the carbs parts stated above.

THEN we can help ya get that engine of yours dialed in as well as we can via the internet.

KNOWLEDGE IS KING. You must know what you have before you can fix it...!!!!!!!!!!

Cheers,
Clayton
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Old 10-04-2007, 12:35 AM
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lbreen
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: chicago, il
Posts: 23
I will find out tonite about the dizzy. You would have to put the regulator just after the pump to bring down the press from 7 to 3. Right? Now it sits feeding the return line. Being feed from the line between the pump and the carbs. Time to re-plumb! Thanks, I'll get back. Lar
Old 10-04-2007, 03:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lbreen View Post
I will find out tonite about the dizzy. You would have to put the regulator just after the pump to bring down the press from 7 to 3. Right? Now it sits feeding the return line. Being feed from the line between the pump and the carbs. Time to re-plumb! Thanks, I'll get back. Lar
Most people install the fuel pump up front and the regulator in the engine compartment, then tee to both carbs with no return line.

Look inside the carb throats for a number on the top of the primary venturis, just below the secondary venturi outer ring. Best # to find will be 32. Any bigger will hurt performance of a stock 2L.

I bet your fuel mileage goes up quite a bit when you get the pressure down to 2.5 psi at the carbs.
When you did the rebuild did you carefully set the float tangs for open and closed dimensions per the instructions?

If you want a real good distributor get a Mallory Unilite.
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Old 10-04-2007, 09:22 AM
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lbreen
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: chicago, il
Posts: 23
Hi, I did find a number on the distributor. A number or letter in a circle then 0 231 178009. The carb has a 36 in the throat. I will look for a pressure gage this weekend.lb
Old 10-04-2007, 05:15 PM
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You either have your dizzy recurved to TYPE IV specs by someone that KNOWS HOW to do it.
(hard to find unless they have a working distributor machine and they know how to use it and what specs to curve it to.)

Or buy the proper dizzy for your engine.
The 009 was NEVER made for a TYPE IV engine. It was made as a performance option for a TYPE I engine. The 009 advance curve SUCKS big time for your engine.

I can't get a Type IV engine to run right with carbs when guys run the 009.
And I have tried So many times. I simply won't tune TYPE IV engines anymore if they have an 009.
The tuning always ends up in a crappy compromise and they engines NEVER run right.

Once they step up to a Stock TYPE IV dizzy..... or even better..... A Mallory Unilite distributor. The carb tuning is SSSooooo much easier.
More performance.
Way better fuel mileage and all around improved performance.
YES it does make that much difference when you toss that 009 in the river and run a proper distributor for your engine.
I have been here too many times with other guys. 009s dizzys simply suck for your application. PERIOD....

NOTE: Your vents are WAY WAY WAY to big for your engine. You need 32s and probably a re-jet to get your engine to run effectively.

You will NEVER get your engine to run remotely correct with 36 vents.

GO BUY THE WEBER TUNING MANUAL and read it from front to back until you understand Weber carb basics. or find a type IV tuner that knows whasss up in your area.

NOTE: MOST Type I guys can't help you. These are different engines. And what works for a TYPE I doesn't necessarily flow over to the TYPE IV engine.... I know this to be true.

If you have an ADJUSTABLE fuel pressure regulator. You place it BEFORE the carbs and AFTER the pump. Use no return line to tank. You don't need it.
If you DO have an adjustable regulator. And it is for an injected engine... You are wasting your time. The odds of it working at 2.5 - 3lbs of fuel pressure is remote.

The gauge you should use should be a gauge that reads no more than about 20PSI.
(Lower is better)
As a typical inexpensive fuel pressure gauge is most accurate in the middle of it's resolution. A 50 LB gauge sucks at 2.5 lbs if you are looking for accurate data.

My gauges max at 10lbs. (From CB Performance)

If you are using an FI pump... I would replace it with a Weber fuel pressure "specific" pump.
In that way... You have NO regulator. One less thing to mess with. And just keeps it simple.

Try Re-reading the above posts.

Do what the fellas here said to do.. And report back.
By the way.........
You have some really smart guys posting to your thread. Many of us have walked your path... We know.....

I screwed all this stuff up before you. ( I remember the frustration...LOL....)
Thats how we all learned to fix all these problems.
You are in good company here.

I / We would LIKE TO SEE YOU GET YOUR CAR RUNNING LIKE A SEWING MACHINE ON STEROIDS...!!!!!!

Or come to Cali and Da SoCal crew will hook ya up...!!!!!!!!!

NOTE: The above is simply my experience. Yours may well be different.

Clayton
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Last edited by Twystd1; 10-04-2007 at 07:47 PM.. Reason: I was staring at a picture of Slits in a clown suite.
Old 10-04-2007, 07:38 PM
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lbreen
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: chicago, il
Posts: 23
Just wanted to say thank you. Everyone here has treated me like a brother. I will re-read the posts and figure where to get started. My family thinks I'm crazy because I prefer to drive this little noisy green car. A perfectly good corvette (92) sits in the garage because I like to drive the 914. I just thought this is how they all run. I see now that it can be improved quite a bit. I failed to mention I need to adjust the valves also. I see there is a procedure here also for that. So between a kitchen remodel and family, I will get busy. Thanks again Clayton. I'll report back...Larry
Old 10-05-2007, 01:45 PM
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lbreen
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: chicago, il
Posts: 23
Finding a pump is no problem. I'll pick that up locally today It will be tough for me to do, but I will close off the return line, and re-plumb. Need to figure out about the dizzy. A stock one? If I buy a stock one, it will have a vacuum advance, I believe. Or will this be ok? Pelican doesn't have a Mallory. I am going to call them about the jets and dizzy. when they open. A local parts store can order a dizzy,83 bucks and change. I don't think this work? might not be any better off.
Old 10-06-2007, 06:53 AM
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lbreen
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: chicago, il
Posts: 23
Summit Racing #maa 4554101 $287.39+ Will keep looking lb
Old 10-06-2007, 07:05 AM
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Ibreen,

Check your PMs.

I think a phone call is in order. As I can't write for shiiit.

The answers you need would take too long to write.
Yet one phone call will get you started on the correct path. And that only takes a half an hour or so. have a pencil handy...!!!!!

Clayton
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Old 10-06-2007, 06:33 PM
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Send a message via AIM to bperry
This is a book you'll want:
Weber Tech Handbook

CB also carries a nice fuel pump as well:
Rotary Fuel Pump

--- bill
Old 10-06-2007, 11:50 PM
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Twas fun talking with you this evening.....

Lets see how this progreses.

And post up what you learn... As other guys might read this and learn sumpin..

Cheers,

Clayton
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Old 10-07-2007, 08:31 PM
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sounds like clayton has you going down the correct path. with the price of fuel these days the mallory will start to pay for itself right off the bat (i run one). the smaller of the gallon per minute rating cb pumps will work just fine. no need to purchase a fp gauge unless you absolutely want one. i run 40 idfs w/28mm venturis on a 2.0 fi engine. good bottom end and the enigne pulls nicely to 5.5k. the stock BIG fuel filters work great. i'll presume clatyon mentioned the jumper wire trick at the engine relay board to power the pump using the stock wiring harness and relay. if you buy a mallory and are unsure of how to hook it up, ASK QUESTIONS!! do it wrong, and it will prob cost you countless hours and $100 to rectify the the "no spark" issue. DO NOT power the pump off of the coil! the jumper wire will spare you having to run a long power lead to the fuse panel under the dash. if you purchase a mallory from jake raby it will come to you with the correct springs, ready to install.

k
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Old 10-14-2007, 06:30 AM
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