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DSPTurtle 10-30-2001 04:31 AM

Which End
Maybe some of you performance and budget minded guys can weigh in here... If I am only going to do one end of the car first for shocks and springs, which one shoudl I do? I have been thinking that the torsion bars should be first but one guy is trying to convince me that rear springs and shocks will make a bigger difference than the front. What do you guys think is the best way to start this. I am debating 140# vs. 180# with Bilstein shocks. In the front I am debating 22mm vs. 23mm with matching Bilsteins. Let me know your thoughts cause I would liek to get the one end done before this weekends race!!!

David McLaughlin 10-30-2001 08:35 AM

IMHO, if you can't afford to buy every thing at once, then buy what you can, when you can (as I'm doing). BUT, don't install anything until you have everything. If you were replacing old items with new STOCK pieces, then that would be fine, but where you are upgrading, I don't think it's wise. especially if you are going to race (I assume AX?).

By stiffening up one end and not the other, you change the cars geomitry. If you stiffen up the front as you plan, you will have massive understeer. Stiffening the rear only will give you oversteer. Either case is not fast and could potentially be dangerous as speed or on the roadway.

Just my $.02, maybe less

1970 914/6
1995 Golf GTI-VR6
1996 Passat TDI
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[This message has been edited by David McLaughlin (edited 10-30-2001).]

DSPTurtle 10-30-2001 09:03 AM

Dave...I hear you, but one of the fun things to me is change one thing before each race so I can see what my dirty fingernails and bloody knuckles were able to do. As far as doing one end then the other, I will definitely do both just want to one per month. I try to keep to a monthly budget (yeah right Autox is correct. I just love playing with the car and look forward to the day that I am a good enough driver to make my teener stand proud as it kicks the crap out of the rice burning Miata. Who the hell put us in that class anyway. As always, thanks for your help and opinions guys!!!

Dave at Pelican Parts 10-30-2001 10:10 AM

Stiffening the front end will generally make the car understeer. Stiffening the rear end will generally make the car oversteer.

Understeer tends to be safer on the street, but more frustrating at the autoX. Oversteer tends to be more hazardous on the street (the car likes to swap ends) but more entertaining on the autoX course.

If you're going to do one end, I suggest the front. Better to be frustrated than spinning into something large and immobile. (Don't ask me how I know.)


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Conrad W Peden 10-30-2001 10:11 AM

What do you have for a front/rear sway?

You might want to there first.

Springs and Shocks can get expensive and a good sway may be all you need. (For a start.)

72 914 L20E in rusto.
73 914 L20E 2.0L in resto.

[This message has been edited by Conrad W Peden (edited 10-30-2001).]

campbellcj 10-30-2001 11:09 PM

If you make a substantial change on one end of the car and leave the other one alone...odds are that you'll either be spinning some 720's, or plowing off the road (due to fatal understeer) into a curb or worse. I wouldn't do it until you can do the whole 'package'. Just my $.02

Chris C.
73 914 2.0
70 911E Targa

Jim Smolka 10-31-2001 02:19 AM

To answer the question on 180 vs 140 springs, I recommend the 180#. I have had both, I prefer the 180#. I can still lift the inside front tire when I hit the gas comming out of a turn on a autox course. Stiffer springs can cure that problem, but I would have to go to coil overs and #300 springs.

For the front, I have a 911 Carrera setup with 23mm torsion bars with a 22mm sway bar. I would replace the bushings before I would install the new torsion bars, other wise 22 or 23mm bars will rub.

As far as which end to do first... All should be done at the same time (springs, shocks, swaybars, T-bars, bushings), then alignment and corner balance. The problem is that this can get expensive (over $1200)

You might want to try a set of race rims with the Komo Victor racers first. BIG difference.

Anyway, good luck w/the project

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