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Eduardo Castrejón Elbjorn's Avatar
 
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Question 74 911 front suspension arrived

Hi,
Please help me with this:

Today arrived my 911 front suspension (at last ! ). I bought this on ebay in $ 300.00 .
I only know that is a 74 but I don know what type of calipers I have. Today I know that are aluminium calipers.
Yes, I know that a lot of you told me, that not buy this type of calipers.
The next one will be A carrera calipers.
But in this moment I need to make a buyer list to fix this:

1.- Rebuilt calipers
2.- pads
3.- shocks
4.- turbo tie rods
5.- bushings
6.- stainless brake lines

Do I forget somthing, suggestions ?

1.- I don´t remember if this are m or s calipers ? I believe that s.
2.- What are the problems with this type of calipers. ?
3.- Can I install " A " calipers in this suspension or I need to change other parts ?
4.- where I can buy the bolt kit or I can use anykind (stainless) ?

thanks and regards
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Last edited by Eduardo Castrejón Elbjorn; 03-22-2002 at 01:16 PM..
Old 03-22-2002, 09:46 AM
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Yes the S are aluminium.

But I´m not sure what type of calipers I have, because I clean one caliper with a little of fuel (gasoline) and this cleans and look like aluminium but:

1.- are heavy !
2.- I know that magnet don´t work with aluminium and I use a magnet with this calipers and the magnet work.

This are the # in the calipers

p36 p81 106 145 5-38 357
p31 p70
GTE or FLTE

If this calipers are steel or iron what type of calipers are ?
Old 03-22-2002, 11:09 AM
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If a magnet sticks to them they are steel calipers so they are the M calipers not S which are aluminum.
Geoff
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Old 03-22-2002, 11:15 AM
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Bleyseng:

Thanks for your answer, I have another questions

1.- The s are newer than m then I supose that the s are better ?
2.- What kind of calipers have the 914/6 ? I supose that have m calipers too.

Do I feel a improvement with this front 911 m calipers brakes ?
Can I install the " a" calipers in this setup ?

3.- The person who solds me this suspension don´t be sure about the model year.
Then what are the visual diferences to know if is m or a calipers ?
Sounds like I dreaming but maybe ! I hope.
I attach you the url of the ebay auction to see photos but the calipers don´t appear there.

Let me know

Regards
911 suspension photos

Last edited by Eduardo Castrejón Elbjorn; 03-22-2002 at 01:25 PM..
Old 03-22-2002, 11:21 AM
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1.- The s are newer than m then I supose that the s are better ?

Porsche first put the "S" brakes on the 911 S, while the 911 E and the 911 T both got the "M" brakes. Porsche certainly thought they were better. They're lighter, if nothing else.


2.- What kind of calipers have the 914/6 ? I supose that have m calipers too.

Yes, M calipers on the 914-6.


Do I feel a improvement with this front 911 m calipers brakes ?

Over stock 914-4 brakes, almost certainly. Over stock 914-6 brakes, not at all--they're the same.


Can I install the " a" calipers in this setup ?

Not without getting different struts.


3.- The person who solds me this suspension don´t be sure about the model year. Then what are the visual diferences to know if is m or a calipers ?

Measure the spacing of the bolts that hold the caliper onto the strut. M calipers have 3" spacing. Both S calipers and A calipers have 3.5" spacing. A caliper that has 3.5" spacing and that a magnet will stick to is an A caliper. One that has 3.5" spacing that a magnet will not stick to is an S caliper. One with a 3" spacing is an M caliper, and a magnet will stick to it.

Hope this helps.

--DD
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Old 03-22-2002, 03:25 PM
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Dave thanks for your answer

which of this mesures 2 or 3 ?
let me know
regards
Attached Images
File Type: jpg caliper measure.jpg (24.8 KB, 563 views)
Old 03-22-2002, 05:03 PM
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Center-to-center measurement. That would be the lower one on your picture.

--DD
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Old 03-22-2002, 10:29 PM
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Dave:

Thanks for your answer

The lower one ?
I supose that you refer to 2 center to center.

Then the measure is 3.0 ", then I have the M calipers.

Thanks

What I need to install a front sway bar ?

Bushings, in the pelican site exist a cheap and expensive , what are the diferences ?

let me know
regards
Old 03-22-2002, 10:39 PM
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What about ball joints ?

Do I need to replace it ?

How I can know if are wear ?

thanks
Old 03-23-2002, 08:39 AM
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Sorry, for some reason I only saw two sets of holes the first time I read the note. Yes, the center one is what I mean.

In a brief search (sorry, short on time!) I couldn't find the two different front sway bar bushing types. But I'm guessing that, if they're different materials, one is harder than the other. You'll probably get more noise and a bit more harshness with the harder material, and a bit less with the softer material. The harder one should help the suspension to feel very slightly more crisp.

Not sure offhand on the ball joints.

--DD
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Old 03-23-2002, 04:35 PM
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Eduardo, since it appears your 911 suspension is still in pieces, why not replace the ball joints while it's easy to do? Compared to the money you are spending on your conversion, they are cheap, and you will then KNOW you have a solid front end. You don't know how old the existing ball joints are, or what roads they've travelled for the past n years; could be up to 30 years old!
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Old 03-24-2002, 12:13 PM
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Summersledsix:

Yes, I´m agree with you.

Every ball joint about $50 but I don´t what is involved to replace thsia and if is an easy job, special tools ?,etc

Ball Joint, 911 (1974-89) [Photo]
C-341-049-01 $49.40
Cotter Pin for Ball Joint Lock Plate, 911 (1974-89), 930 (1976-89) [Photo]
N-012-521-1 $0.20
Lock Plate for Ball Joint Bottom Nut, 911 (1974-89), 930 (1976-89) [Photo]
A-341-426-00 $5.50
Nut for Ball Joint to A-Arm Attachemnt, 911 (1974-89), 930 (1976-89) [Photo]
A-341-425-00 $14.95
Threaded Pin for Ball Joint Attachment, 911 (1974-89) [Photo]
C-341-119-06 $16.50
Washer for Ball Joint Threaded Pin [Photo]
J-089-006-02 $0.95
Lock Nut for Ball Joint Threaded Pin [Photo]
K-084-019-02 $0.95
Ball Joint Pin Wrench Socket, 1/2 Drive, 911 (1965-89), 914 All, 912 [Photo]
PEL-TOL-P210 $49.00
Old 03-24-2002, 01:27 PM
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Eduardo,
I recognize most of the stuff in your list. You will need that special socket at the bottom of your list unless you know someone who already has the tool. I had to take my control arms and the tool to a local garage that had an air powered impact wrench to get them off (I don't have a compressor).

You probably don't need items 3and 4 on your list, you should be able to reuse the old ones if they're not destroyed when you disassemble. DO NOT reuse anything that's called a "lock-nut", and don't re-use that threaded pin thing. Buy new ones.
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Old 03-24-2002, 02:42 PM
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John:

Thanks

what about bearings ?
Old 03-24-2002, 04:54 PM
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Same argument as the ball joints, and I think they are cheaper than the ball joints. By the way, while you're waiting for those ball joints, turn your struts upside down now and start soaking those large bottom nuts with WD-40, you'll need all the help you can get.

The front wheel bearings are a little more difficult to replace than the ball joints though. When you take the hub apart, as you will have to when you replace the rotors, 2/3 of the bearings will basically fall out in your lap. The 1/3 that's left are the outer races (2 per hub) that are pressed into the hub. You have to get them out to replace the bearing, and that is a PITA.

When you have the hub apart, clean the old grease off the bearings and inspect them for wear, ie pitting or scoring of the rollers and races. If they look OK, you can just repack them and reinstall.

If they are worn, or if you just want to start with a clean slate, here's how I got mine out: heat the hub(s) in the oven up to about 350 degrees (wait for your wife to go shopping before you do this, and put the hub in one of those turkey baking bags to keep the oven clean), then carefully tap the races out with a drift punch. You can mangle the races all you want, since you are replacing them, but don't scratch the inside surface of the hub. I think PP sells a tool to do this a little more professionally, but I was too cheap to buy it.

When I got the races out, I cut a slot in one of the old ones with a cutoff tool so that I could tap on it to tap the new race in without hurting the new race. The cut in the old race allows it to shrink slightly so you can more easily get it back out when you've seated the new race(s).

Don't try to mix anytyhing new with old. And by the way, if you choose not to do this, make sure you keep the bearing parts with the hubs they came out of, don't mix sides, they wear differently.

If the bearings need to be replaced and you don't want to hassle with it, you should be able to take the hubs to a local garage and have someone with the special tools do it. Should be fairly cheap since you did virtually all the labor and brought the replacement parts.

Hope this helps, those races will test both your patience and your persistence, but if a human put them in there in the first place, a human can also get them out. Good luck!
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Old 03-24-2002, 06:09 PM
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Thanks, this will be very useful !

This don´t be cheap !

I also need to rebuil the calipers, I already saw the pelican article, do you have something about this ?

let me know
regards
Old 03-24-2002, 10:45 PM
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Eduardo,
I think the PP article sums up the caliper rebuild pretty well, after doing ball joints and / or wheel bearings, the calipers are a walk in the park. I replaced the dust boots and rubber seal ring on mine, and cleaned them thoroughly with brake cleaner, and they're working fine. There's not much to wear out on a caliper, the biggest problem is if the dust boot breaks or comes off and the top of the piston is exposed to corrosion. Don't be surprised to see a little corrosion at the very top of the piston, if it's superficial you can clean it off with scotchbrite. It's only an issue if the brake sat for a long time with the piston extended and the piston surface that slides past the rubber seal is corroded. If that's the case, you'll want to replace the piston.

Note one option you have here, especially since you were talking about changing caliper types. PP and others sell already-rebuilt calipers. If you consider the cost of a rebuild kit (the one that includes a new piston) and your own labor, the rebuilt price is pretty reasonable.
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Old 03-25-2002, 06:15 AM
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While you are at it you might as well install new tie rods. Get the turbo tie rods get rid of the rubber pieces.
Geoff
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Old 03-25-2002, 07:25 AM
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Geoff:

Thanks, yes, I already bought the turbo tie rods, $92 new on ebay.
regards
Old 03-25-2002, 10:43 AM
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John:

Yes, but the problems with me are the export and import, shipping,taxes.
I will repair my calipers, I only need to find who sells the piston that I need ?

I know that the spindles and calipers a diferent between m and s but th rotors are the same ?
regards

Last edited by Eduardo Castrejón Elbjorn; 03-25-2002 at 11:19 AM..
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