Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog Tech Info Tech Forums
 
  Search our site:    
 Cart  | Project List | Order Status | Help    
  We salute a legendary member of the community.
Thank you for selflessly sharing your wisdom with us...
Go Back   Pelican Parts Technical BBS > 1- Porsche Technical Forums > Porsche 914 & 914-6 Technical Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: No Cal
Posts: 54
'71 conversion tranny and clutch

I'm figuring out what is needed for converting a 1971 tail shifter 4 cyl to a 6. (I have been a 914 4 owner in the past, so I"m pretty familiar with the car.) I've read the info about the conversion on Pelican which is very helpful. So I have access to an original 1971 4 cyl car with the tail shifter and a 1971 911T motor that I can install.
Can I just mount the engine to the tranny and use the stock clutch?
Do I need a different shift rod?
Will the stock shift rod work if I used the correct motor mount?
Which motor mount is recommended for this?
Old 05-07-2012, 07:10 AM
  Recommend this thread for the PelicanWiki    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
mike95125's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canonsburg, PA
Posts: 1,385
You can just mount them up. That engine should have the correct flywheel. A tail shifter rod will clear it as well as it is basically a straight bar. However, you can convert to a side shifter as well with your current box. The motor mount that I prefer is the one that is welded to the firewall and has the two sproto mounts in it. I forget the manufacturer.
__________________
AKA: Dr Evil on the 914World forum, need your tranny rebuilt, or want a "How to rebuild your transmission DVD" set? PM me.
-74 914 with 74 2.7 CIS
-74 VW Bus with modified 3.1 corvair engine and 3.0 CIS fuel injection system.
-74 BMW R90
Old 05-07-2012, 07:19 AM
  Recommend this thread for the PelicanWiki    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Scrappy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Milky Way Galaxy - 3rd Stone
Posts: 851
The mount is Rich Johnson's and the copy by Maddog.

I just take a side shifter bar, shorten and straighten it. To use stock 914/6 HEs the bar must not have the bend in it as it will hit the HEs (probably the same with headers).
__________________
Ron Meier
Backyard Shadetree Mechanic
1974 914/6 conversion with 2.7L (The Grey Ghost)
1973 Chalon with 2.4T MFI (Schlitzalom)
All my 4 cylinders are gone
Old 05-07-2012, 07:35 AM
  Recommend this thread for the PelicanWiki    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
mike95125's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canonsburg, PA
Posts: 1,385
No bend in the tail shift bar so no need to get all interesting with it. Sometimes it misses the HEs, sometimes not. If he runs headers then it is even easier.
__________________
AKA: Dr Evil on the 914World forum, need your tranny rebuilt, or want a "How to rebuild your transmission DVD" set? PM me.
-74 914 with 74 2.7 CIS
-74 VW Bus with modified 3.1 corvair engine and 3.0 CIS fuel injection system.
-74 BMW R90
Old 05-07-2012, 07:51 AM
  Recommend this thread for the PelicanWiki    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: No Cal
Posts: 54
I'll probably run headers. California is heated by the sun.
Old 05-07-2012, 08:00 AM
  Recommend this thread for the PelicanWiki    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Dave at Pelican Parts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Silly-Con Valley
Posts: 12,727
Garage
Send a message via AIM to Dave at Pelican Parts Send a message via Yahoo to Dave at Pelican Parts
The 71 T will have a different flywheel and clutch from what you need. The transmission from the 70-71 911s is the "911", not the "901" gearbox. The difference being that they used a pull-type clutch instead of a push-type. The pressure plate, flywheel, and throwout mechanism are different from the 901 box. To just mount up a 914 transmission (tail- or side-shifter, either one) you need the 901 parts. Alternately, you could use the 911 parts and fab up a pull-type clutch linkage. Clay Perrine did that for his Six conversion, and last I heard he was happy with it.

The engine will not bolt up to the car. That's what the various mounts are for.

The exhaust will play a large part in determining what sort of shift rod setup you need. The Six setup was different from the Four setup (for instance, no rotation-reversing joint at the firewall) so the tail-shift rod might actually interfere with the exhaust or with something else. You'll need to try it and see, but that is probably the least of your worries in fitting a Six into the car.

A popular way to go, as has been stated, is a side-shift transmission from a later car, with the bent part cut out and a straight rod welded in.

--DD
__________________
Pelican Parts 914 Tech Support

A few pics of my car: http://www.pelicanparts.com/gallery/Dave_Darling
Old 05-07-2012, 09:59 AM
  Recommend this thread for the PelicanWiki    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Now Available for Ordering:   101 Projects For Your BMW 3 Series 1982-2000  [more info]
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: No Cal
Posts: 54
Now I have more questions.

Would it be easier to use a different engine that would not require modifications to the clutch?

Would a side shifter tranny be better to mount to the engine?
Old 05-07-2012, 10:35 AM
  Recommend this thread for the PelicanWiki    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Scrappy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Milky Way Galaxy - 3rd Stone
Posts: 851
The clutch / flywheel on the '70 - '71 911, as Dave stated, is a two year only pull type clutch. Tranny is known as a 911/01 as I remember.

The advantage to using it is that it is a 225 mm clutch disk. To utilize the drive train, you would have to flip the ring&pinion assembly and reset the pinion depth. You would also have to convert the "real" tailshifter** 911 tranny to a sideshifter or purchase very expensive cable shifting mechanism. ** Early 911 trannys are like their VW counterpart in that the shifter rod sticks out of the center (almost) of the rear cover of the tranny. As far as the cable for the clutch, you would just use a '70 - '71 clutch cable.

The transmission is also geared differently to run higher rpm to accommodate the six's rpm/torque range. You would want a 914 5th gear anyway for highway crusing.

Purchase an early 901 flywheel (6 bolt) and use a stock 914 2.0 clutch assembly with a 914 transmission (side shifter being the best). The early flywheel can be had new off eBay and sometimes used.
__________________
Ron Meier
Backyard Shadetree Mechanic
1974 914/6 conversion with 2.7L (The Grey Ghost)
1973 Chalon with 2.4T MFI (Schlitzalom)
All my 4 cylinders are gone
Old 05-07-2012, 11:41 AM
  Recommend this thread for the PelicanWiki    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: No Cal
Posts: 54
Purchase an early 901 flywheel (6 bolt) and use a stock 914 2.0 clutch assembly with a 914 transmission (side shifter being the best). The early flywheel can be had new off eBay and sometimes used.

Would I have to modify the pinion in side shifter tranny?
Old 05-07-2012, 02:28 PM
  Recommend this thread for the PelicanWiki    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Scrappy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Milky Way Galaxy - 3rd Stone
Posts: 851
No .... I have run the assembly behind a 2.4L, 2.7L, 2.7Ls and a 3.0.
__________________
Ron Meier
Backyard Shadetree Mechanic
1974 914/6 conversion with 2.7L (The Grey Ghost)
1973 Chalon with 2.4T MFI (Schlitzalom)
All my 4 cylinders are gone
Old 05-07-2012, 02:33 PM
  Recommend this thread for the PelicanWiki    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Scott S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Mile High City
Posts: 663
Garage
The stock tail shifter bar will not work - even with headers. Mine was not even close, and I am currently in the process of making a new shift rod. I am using the Rich Johnson mount, and my engine tins match the engine compartment shelf /seal almost perfectly - so I am confident that the motor is aligned.

The stock bar interfears in two places:

1. on the firewall end it hits the timing chain cover

2. the header

(see pics)





Both areas are not insignificant/slight - stuff is really in the way.

To go under it all, you will need a 4" drop from stock - and it needs to happen before the existing bend in the stock rod.
You can aslo tuck it a bit toward the center of the car - this requires a 3" drop and a re-index. I have built both sets of drops - just not sure which way I will go. It is sort of a lose/lose, as the 4" straight drop put the linkage low enough that I am concerend about hitting it on something. The side drop/re-index seems good, except that having the shift bar off to one side will cause the shifer to always want to "fall" to the passenger side due to the weight/offset

__________________
- A pile of British stuff
- A growing pile of German stuff
... oh, and two Hondas - complete with car seats and pounds of fish crackers smashed into the carpet (and seats, and door pockets, etc etc etc....)
Old 05-07-2012, 03:13 PM
  Recommend this thread for the PelicanWiki    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
mike95125's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canonsburg, PA
Posts: 1,385
Ah, as with what Ron said, the side shift bar is best as it comes out of the wall at a different spot and misses all the spots on the engine that Scott shows. Its been a while since I did my conversion. I use a side shift trans.

As for the OP, I thought he was wanting to use a tail shift 914 trans with the 911 engine. AS such, he can convert the 911 box if he really wanted to and save some hassle, but might find other hassle in the conversion itself. The gearing would be fine, you flip the diff, and change the bits that need to be changed to side shift parts (I have it interested).
__________________
AKA: Dr Evil on the 914World forum, need your tranny rebuilt, or want a "How to rebuild your transmission DVD" set? PM me.
-74 914 with 74 2.7 CIS
-74 VW Bus with modified 3.1 corvair engine and 3.0 CIS fuel injection system.
-74 BMW R90
Old 05-07-2012, 03:46 PM
  Recommend this thread for the PelicanWiki    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Dave at Pelican Parts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Silly-Con Valley
Posts: 12,727
Garage
Send a message via AIM to Dave at Pelican Parts Send a message via Yahoo to Dave at Pelican Parts
It sounds like the OP is talking about:

2.2 911T engine
914 tail-shift transmission

So, you need the appropriate flywheel to use the 2.2 engine with the 914 clutch and transmission. That flywheel is the 1969 911T flywheel. Or equivalent. The stock 914 clutch and pressure plate work with those, I believe. But best to get new parts for those I would think--stock 914-6 parts, which are the same as the 69 911T parts.

To mate up a 2.4 or 2.7 motor to the 914 transmission, you need the exact same parts. The 69T flywheel bolts up to the crank on those motors.

The attachment to the 3.0 (and later) cranks is different. So you need the appropriate flywheel for that conversion, which is available from several sources (but might all be made by Kennedy?). You would use the clutch and pressure plate from a 1969 911T with that flywheel....

Now, if the 1971 911T engine comes with the transmission in there from the 911, you can do some work to it in order to use that transmission in the 914. Scrappy outlined what you do there.

--DD
__________________
Pelican Parts 914 Tech Support

A few pics of my car: http://www.pelicanparts.com/gallery/Dave_Darling
Old 05-07-2012, 08:29 PM
  Recommend this thread for the PelicanWiki    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Old 05-07-2012, 08:29 PM
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:30 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2011 Pelican Parts - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.