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mtndew342's Avatar
 
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Engine mod disaster!

I'm modifying my current 1.8L to 2.1L by putting a 2.0L crank and 96mm p/c's. The problem is that when I put everything back together the pistons stuck about 3mm beyond the end of the cylynders. So I had some shims made (6mm) and all was well againg in the land of my garage. That was until I tried to put the push-rod tubes in and found that they and the push rods are too short by 6mm!
Now I was told that they don't make longer tubes and so I've cut them and lengthened them by connecting the two halfs w/ oil hose. But my rods are still too short! Any ideas, or solutions. Anyone ever been there! What is the difference between the 1.8L and 2.0L engines that would do this!


~Steven
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Old 08-07-2002, 09:50 PM
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You have 96mm Pistons for a 1.8 crank.

The wrist pin location is off by (GUESS)...

5mm's

The stroke of a 1.8 is 66mm

The 2.0 is 71mm

How do you think they kept the same displacement in the same engine measurement ? They offset ground the 66 crank.

Which moved the wristpin.

Your playing with fire. None of your engine tin will fit and you will have to make new pushrods.

You think adjusting the 914 valves is hard now ?? Move the heads out 6mm on each side and you cant hardly get the valve covers off.

B

Last edited by Brad Roberts; 08-07-2002 at 10:42 PM..
Old 08-07-2002, 10:31 PM
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Just so I sound like a complete A-Hole...lol

You need 96mm P+C's which have the correct wrist pin location for what your trying to do with the 2.0 crank.

Your better off assembling the 1911 (1.8 crank + 96's) and bolting 2.0 heads on it.

That 1911 combo with 2.0 heads will scream.

B
Old 08-07-2002, 10:44 PM
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Hey, cool. That makes a lot of sense! But that sucks to, since now I need to find some 2.0L 96mm pistons! Anyone have any 96mm pistons for a 2.0L? Anyone know the prices on new nickies? Thanks!

~Steven
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Old 08-07-2002, 10:47 PM
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There is a company out of SF that imports a 96mm flat top with iron cylinders for around 250.00$

The VW rebuilders have been using this companies product for several years. I personally have not used them, but I have friends who have bought 96's from them and liked them.

B
Old 08-08-2002, 12:02 AM
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After you go to the trouble of getting the right P&C's, I may be interested in your "Wrong" P&C's.

James
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Old 08-08-2002, 04:39 AM
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if all else fails try www.aircooled.net. . what rods did you use?

kevin
Old 08-08-2002, 05:02 AM
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Sounds like B has zoomed in on what your problem is. Either that, or something [b]really[b] weird is going on...

On the Nickies, the answer is "If you have to ask..." Even the Biral Babies are rather pricey. But if they last as long as advertised (i.e., for ever and ever and ever) they can be worth it in the long haul. http://www.lnengineering.com

--DD
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Old 08-08-2002, 07:23 AM
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I would do like Brad says and use the 66mm crank. You need the 1.8 rods as well. If you no longer have the 1.8 stuff, or your 71mm crank and rods are already balanced and all assembled for the final time, then you will need to get the 2.0 pistons. Keith Black makes 'em both ways (wrist pin heights). Theorectically, you can balance the new pistons and install and the motor will be balanced (assuming that you balanced the crank, flywheel and rods; if not, do it). I guess you bored your 94mm jugs, so maybe you can just buy the pistons and check clearance. If you bought new 96mm p/c's, so can sell the set and bore your old 94s.
Old 08-08-2002, 07:29 AM
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Kevin,

The 1.8 rods dont fit the 2.0 crank (not even close)

The 2.0 rods have a much smaller journal than the 1.8.

This is where they made up the difference in stroke (smaller journal)

He is real close right now. He really just needs 2.0 96's.

I personally prefer short stroke large bore with 48x38 valves, a 512lift cam and 2.0 heads. Still has decent torque but screams to 7k RPM.

He will not see much benefit if he is not using the 2.0 heads on the 2056 (I call it like it is..not 2100).

B
Old 08-08-2002, 12:43 PM
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Hey!

Not having a 2.0 rod in my hand, is it possible to reduce the center length between the big end center and the small end center by 5 mm? (Off set bore the little end by 5mm).

Maybe the cheapest way out of the dilemma!
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Old 08-08-2002, 06:00 PM
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I looked at a 2.0 rod that I have,

not enough material to go that far. Maybe 3 mm's.

Good thought though.

B
Old 08-08-2002, 06:42 PM
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Well then, one more step - Are the piston decks thick enough to take a 2-3+ mm decking without creating a problem with the first ring land or seriously weakening the deck?

With the combination, one would also have to check the depth of the the first ring in the bore to make sure rod stretch would not "pop" the top ring outta the hole.

If the combination would work, it would solve the problem. BUT if he ever sold the car without notes, the next owner would be ralllly po'd when he went for a normal rebuild.

Ah, the things that run thru an ex-racers mind

Boy Red-Beard, you really are a junkie for parts or is this for the "part or restore" '73? (that's two for me for the "Sunday" thing)
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Old 08-08-2002, 09:04 PM
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All good idea's, but reality says: the cost of the machine work would be about the same as buying a new P+C set.

What do you mean "ex racer" ??

Once a racer always a racer.

B
Old 08-08-2002, 09:33 PM
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Ah yea - I know what you mean - the smell of burnt rubber and high test.

Unfortunately the closest I get to the sound of a fire breathing, rip snorting race engine these days is heavy flatulence in the morning. Yes, my pipes are tuned.

(I really didn't say that).


Yep Yep auyp - new P&Cs will solve a rather large headache.
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Old 08-08-2002, 09:58 PM
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That's 3 or maybe 4 for you.....

Now would that be a younger model+viagra?

James
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Old 08-08-2002, 10:20 PM
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Thanks for all the help you guys. I opted to buy a new set of pistons from a company jake raby recomended. I got the crank through a friend who supplys parts to the parts places and so it was profesionally rebult and machined w/ the rods (all for $100! ) I had the cylinders honed already and they are all good so I just got the cylinders. And since this is my first engine build I didn't know all of this and am now out $70 for the shims I had made! I'm just glad That there are guys like you for me to get advice and info. Thanks!

~Steven
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Old 08-08-2002, 11:01 PM
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If you're only out $70.00 consider yourself lucky.

And

Thanks James, I deserved that. The barby is gonna be fired this Sunday at Glenn's in the murder capital of California. We're trying to get a couple of people to show up so we don't look like pigs. If ya got nuttin' to do, the feed bag is on.

Hell, we might even work on one of the cars too!
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Old 08-09-2002, 05:00 AM
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I'll bring the Operational one!!!

And it will be Sunday, so it will be your day to be in rare form!

Time?

James
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Old 08-09-2002, 05:44 AM
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So... Steven,

I see how it works. I answer you question within 30 miniutes or so of you posting and you turn to Jake for the pistons.

Why didnt you just ask Jake to begin with ??

Just razzing you.

What are the pistons going to run you ... you said cylinders, but "I" knew you meant pistons.

B
Old 08-09-2002, 01:13 PM
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