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What happens at 120 F

Ok I have posted on this site about this very same problem. Ny 74 1.8 has not been on the road because of this lates problem. She will start and run fine until alittle over 120 F. At 120 she stutter and runs real rough and then after just a few seconds after that she shuts off live she stops getting fuel and just dies.
My thoughts...Maybe the cold start valve so I san tests with both connected and disconnected and no difference. Head Temp sensor was my second idea and i bought a new one and went to put it in. I found that i have a second location for my Head sensor. it is just to the left of the sparkplug. about six inches away from the stock one. it is about as easy to get to as it could be.so i put the new one there and fired her up. nothing. Relized that i didn't have that copper washer and so i replaced that and still nothing. so i figured i would put it back in the stock location but as i tried to remove the old original head temp sensor and the last owner forgot to use anti sezie and the sensor broke off in the head. But even if it is better to use the original location my problem would have changed somewhat even if i put it in the wrong place, right?
On a tip someone said that my air mass meter might be bad so i am checking that out. It does connect to the fuel pump so if for some reason it shuts it off at 120 then that would do it. But that temp sensor is for out side air. anyways i thought i had it figured out with the head temp sensor but now im back where i started. any ideas? thanks
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Old 08-11-2002, 12:11 PM
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Bad trigger points for the fuel injectors can cause a number of stuttering/ stalling problems. I had some recurring but intermittent problems that all went away when the trigger points were replaced.

Last edited by mejulihn; 08-11-2002 at 02:18 PM..
Old 08-11-2002, 02:16 PM
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The 1.8s don't have trigger points, however.

Eric, are you sure that you are not getting any fuel? Try a fuel pressure gauge in the high-pressure loop (between the pump and the fuel pressure regulator). If it drops to 0 PSI, you'll know you're not getting fuel.

Check the grounds on the engine, and all of the electrical connections. Also check for vacuum leaks.

The above assumes your valves are adjusted correctly, the engine has decent compression (check both!), and the ignition system is in good working condition. If those are not true, check all of those bits before you start chasing FI problems.

--DD
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Old 08-11-2002, 07:06 PM
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Ooops - I missed that he has a 1.8 which of course has no trigger points. As ususal, DD is right on target again!
Old 08-11-2002, 07:43 PM
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When I had some problems I disconnected everything that the cars FI didn't need to run (cold start injector, aux air valve, thermo time switch ect) to see if the problem went away or if the car ran different. Helped me find out what was working or not. Might help you? Just a thought. Dave
Old 08-11-2002, 08:57 PM
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easy way to check the head temp sensor is to ground the wire for it out and try to start it ( simply bypasses it )

second hot wire the fuel pump to get it to run or just put a relay on the reg board and ground the front left pin out of the four at the rear left of the board ( bypasses the double relay fuel pump relay )

third open the double relay and check the relay on the right ( looking at the tabs that move ) and make sure your not losing the relay, mine was loosing the ground due to a broken solder joint, could not see it check it with ohm meter

or email me for more info
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Old 08-12-2002, 03:30 PM
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Eric,

Check your spark plug wire running from the coil to the dizzy.

Had a mystery problem with my Vanagon (Digifant, a lot like Ljet), idled fine, started bucking and snorting worse and worse, and after about 3-4 minutes it would hardly run (120 degrees?).

Seems my dealer, when I took it in for service, did a number on one of my 2 month old Bosch( $65.00 a set extra special unobtainium) spark plug wires. The plug wire measured fine when cold, ran fine when cold, and when it warmed up, became an insulator.....Sound familiar? Since the wires ran fine for 2 months before I took it to the dealer, I had no reason to suspect it.

65.00 for another set fixed the problem.... Since my first set lasted 140,000 miles, I'm now set for life.............

Hope this helps. It's not polite to ask how long it took me to realize that the dealer prepped wire changed with temperature.


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Old 08-12-2002, 06:04 PM
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Eric,

I'm a 2.0L guy, and not much up on 1.8s, but this condition sounds similar to vapor-lock. I thought DD was headed there with fuel pressure question.

Does car restart easily after sitting 15-20 minutes?

Just a thought.
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Old 08-13-2002, 10:53 AM
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thanks guys... Still having the problem. it starts great after 15 or twenty minutes. and runs strong to 120 and then in a matter of seconds it spits and shutters and just dies. I re-did my electrical in my engine compartment and cleaned that all up ( I am new at this so i am sure that it is not absolutely perfect but i did an ok job) I checked my fuel pressure when running and i had a solid 30 psi to the fuel rail. I'm going to do my valves today (if i can squeeze it in) because one sounds loose. we are thinking that it is electrical either shutting off the fuel pump or something else like the injectors. but we dont have any great ideas. a few questions
Kwals~ thats an interesting thought. but that doesn't exactly fit my problem. because she really runs great all the way up to about 120 then in about 20 seconds she runs rough and dies. but thanks and i will look into it.
Scott~ i will try grounding my temp sensor and see if that shuts off the engine. The double relay (by the battery right?) seems fine. I check it all the time because i have a nasty habit of knocking that off with my arm. thanks those are good ideas. anyways thats where i am at. you guys are great... talk soon
eric
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Old 08-16-2002, 11:36 AM
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I checked my fuel pressure when running and i had a solid 30 psi to the fuel rail.

That's not so good... In the 1.8, the fuel pressure should be referenced to the manifold pressure. Haynes has a spec; I think it's 34 PSI at idle.

--DD
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Old 08-16-2002, 12:43 PM
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Have you checked the fuel filter? Could be that it (or another restriction in the lines) causes it to run out of fuel in about the same amount of time as it takes to get to 120f. 120 is pretty low; and I think letting the car sit 20 minutes wouldn't cool it enough to matter. Anyhow, if you can start it and let it idle until it quits, watch the fuel pressure gauge the whole time. If it is steady until the car quits, look at other things. If it drops suddenly just before the engine quits, think something is electrically shutting off the fuel pump. In this case I'd follow the 'hotwire it' advice given and see if it goes away, then search for why it is shutting off (getting past the urge to leave it hotwired for good!). If there is a steady, downward movement of the pressure, look for a restriction in the line (filter or otherwise). Good luck.
Old 08-17-2002, 04:42 AM
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