Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > Porsche 914 & 914-6 Technical Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
chrisreale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: San Francisco Ca
Posts: 697
Question K&N Air Filter replacement for 914

AnyOne used this? Would this add any performance advantage?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1862681540
__________________
1973 914 2.0 PCA Member GGRwww.pelicanparts.com/gallery/chrisreale/
www.914club.com
Old 09-24-2002, 07:19 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Dave at Pelican Parts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Silly-Con Valley
Posts: 14,062
Garage
Send a message via AIM to Dave at Pelican Parts Send a message via Yahoo to Dave at Pelican Parts
Maybe a bit...

But that's an awfull lotta money for something you can make yourself out of some PVC pipe and some rubber couplings.

--DD
__________________
Pelican Parts 914 Tech Support

A few pics of my car: http://www.pelicanparts.com/gallery/Dave_Darling
Old 09-24-2002, 08:11 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
HMeeder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Posts: 619
Garage
Porsche Crest This is what I did

For my 1.7 I found a K&N (RU-3610) and trimmed the stock U-tube. I drilled a small hole in the end and attached it with a wing nut to a piece of small strap that attaches to the original screw hole where the airbix once went.

Cost me $35


__________________
Herb
'72 Tangerine 'Teen
2.4 liter aluminum handgrenade
Old 09-24-2002, 10:06 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Brad Roberts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Alta Loma, CA
Posts: 1,840
Chris,

here is what we found on the chassis dyno:

Stock 2.0 filter housing with K+N air cleaner (98hp at the rear wheels)

Nothing on the 2.0 throttle body (100hp at the rear wheels)

Is that "thing" really worth the 2hp (maybe)

We moved the snorkel around to point towards the relay board and picked up 2lb feet of torque (whoo hoo)

(my vote: worthless) leave it for the rice crowd. The first time it rains.. you'll be real surprised.

Oh.. if you do decide to go this route.. look at Meeders pic very closely. What most people dont say in these "air cleaner threads" is how important it is to pull a vaccuum on the crankcase. This keeps the engine from spewing oil out every possible seal. Meeder has all his breather lines going into a CB performance "catch" then one line going to his rubber elbow that connects to his throttle body. So.. the people you gave us the link for actually have a correct solution. The breather lines is what most people "blow off" no pun intended, then then dont understand while the valve covers leak and the push rod tube seals leak.

B
Old 09-24-2002, 11:50 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Speedo959's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 682
Would there be any benefits in using the 2.0 intake system on a 1.7? I am mainly talking about the throttlebody while using the 1.7 intake manifolds.
Old 09-25-2002, 04:46 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
HMeeder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Posts: 619
Garage
Porsche Crest Really?

I had heard the argument that you generally don't want the crankcase to vent into the intake. You are basically dumping vaporized oil into the intake, which effects the efficiency of the burn. The major reason that the crank was vented into the air box was for clean air reasons (they didn't want vaporized oil venting straight to the atmosphere.) I installed the vent box (on the left in the upper photo) to relieve crankcase pressure. I had previously had the case venting to the "U" tube (like that aftermarket unit does) and the vacuum pressure was sucking oil out of the case and into the intake! Everytime I pulled the intake apart the inside was coated with oil! I could only imagine what this was doing inside the motor. I suspected fouling. At least the stock airbox has the crankcase ventilation entering before the air filter, providing some particulate filtration. That aftermarket elbow provides no filtration, and this caused me great concern. Also, the stock upper vent tubing enters the airbox where there is far less vacuum pressure (most comes through the air intake) than directly in front of the throttle body like that aftermarket unit.

The crank vent box on the left allows the case to vent to atmospheric pressure (you can't see it but the lid is vented under the lip) and has a sponge filter that captures most of the oil particles and allows the oil to condense and eventually drain back into the case. Being a 1.7 there are no vents on the heads, but I will be adding them soon (I have a set of valve covers that have vent tubes. These will also run up to that vent box.) This is a system used on many, many dune buggys and performance bugs and I did some amount of research with some guys who build performance VW motors. Many use this crankcase venting system.

You will also notice that there are 2 tubes that go to the elbow. The fabric covered one in the foreground is for the gas vapor recovery from the gas tank and the one just behind that goes to the AAR.

BTW, I have no leaks at pushrod tubes or valve covers. I am very happy with the setup.

The other major benefit of the K&N is that it eliminates the huge air box that makes it so difiicult to work on the motor. I use to always have to pull the box off to get at the rest of the motor. Now, I rarely have to move it and as you can see from the photos, there's lots of elbow room in there now!
__________________
Herb
'72 Tangerine 'Teen
2.4 liter aluminum handgrenade

Last edited by HMeeder; 09-25-2002 at 09:27 AM..
Old 09-25-2002, 08:03 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Brad Roberts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Alta Loma, CA
Posts: 1,840
Herb,

everything you mentioned is correct about pulling oil into the engine. Take a look around at all the PRO drag racers and notice that they have a vacuum pump pulling 14 inches of vaccuum on the crankcase breathers. This frees up HP. Most of them use one port from their dry sump setups to pull this vacuum others use a belt driven sunction pump thet they use to pull on the engine.

I think your oil in the intake problem was because the oil "catch" was mounted too low and it allowed the oil to accumulate in the "catch" and therefore be sucked into the intake.

I totally agree about the space issue... but we dont really work on our engines after they have been tuned (no reason to really remove the air cleaner...luckily)

The 4cyl engine horizontally opposed creates a ton of moving air inside the engine.

B
Old 09-25-2002, 10:33 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Brad Roberts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Alta Loma, CA
Posts: 1,840
Speedo,

I have not tried this, but dont see a reason why it wouldnt help a little. The key is to free up the exhaust with a header and install that 2.0 intake (it shouldnt fit the 1.7 runners) and do some testing with a 02 sensor in the exhaust. In my testing, we found that we could control rich and lean on the top end by larger throttle bodies and headers. There is a sweet spot that will produce the most HP and torque with the combination you want to run. You just have to find it by playing with the injection tuning and timing.

B
Old 09-25-2002, 10:38 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Speedo959's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 682
Well I did it. Not because I was looking for h.p. but because all I had was the 2.0 stuff. I used 1.7 injectors though. I had to modify the 1.7 intakes to line up with the 2.0 intake. Previous owner installed carbs and I wanted fuel injection.
Old 09-25-2002, 11:12 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Brad Roberts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Alta Loma, CA
Posts: 1,840
And... Speedo, hows the car run ??

Would you be willing to install a stock 1.7 intake and runners for comparison ??

B
Old 09-25-2002, 11:19 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Stay away from my Member
 
campbellcj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Agoura, CA
Posts: 5,752
I probably sound like a broken record with these RTFM posts...but if you autox/tt in stock-ish classes, they usually don't allow airbox removal or major modification. Just a heads-up.

Also, not necessarily the D-jet Type4's, but in general the air intake on 'most' cars is not a critical point of restriction on the air pump's (engine's) efficiency. In other words, many Porsche/BMW/Audi types have found that if you change the filter but leave the TB, intake (ports/cams/valvetrain), and exhaust alone, the effect is essentially nil.

In fact a lot of the 'cone' filter setups for various cars actually reduce power and increase intake air temps, but the owner's butt dyno is fooled by the increased induction sound. (And some of them do sound pretty mean.)
__________________
Chris C.
1973 914 "R" (914-6) | track toy
2009 911 Turbo 6-speed (997.1TT) | street weapon
2001 F150 Supercrew 4x4 | tow vehicle

Last edited by campbellcj; 09-25-2002 at 02:04 PM..
Old 09-25-2002, 01:49 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Dave at Pelican Parts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Silly-Con Valley
Posts: 14,062
Garage
Send a message via AIM to Dave at Pelican Parts Send a message via Yahoo to Dave at Pelican Parts
install that 2.0 intake (it shouldnt fit the 1.7 runners)

Not correct. The outlets on the 2.0 plenum are larger than the tubes on the 1.7 intake runner pipes. You need to use 1.8 runner pipes instead--they are the correct diameter, and have the four-bolt flange on the head end. You will have to cut them down a bit--the 2.0 plenum is wider than the 1.7/1.8 one, so the runner pipes are shorter to fit.

--DD
__________________
Pelican Parts 914 Tech Support

A few pics of my car: http://www.pelicanparts.com/gallery/Dave_Darling
Old 09-25-2002, 01:54 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
Brad Roberts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Alta Loma, CA
Posts: 1,840
Um.. DaveD (quickdraw) I said it "shouldnt" fit.

How is this wrong ??LOL

I knew they where different sized.

B
Old 09-25-2002, 01:58 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Dave at Pelican Parts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Silly-Con Valley
Posts: 14,062
Garage
Send a message via AIM to Dave at Pelican Parts Send a message via Yahoo to Dave at Pelican Parts
DOH! I mis-read it as "should fit".

Sorry, B. Hey, at least the post did suggest what could be used in its place.

Then again, you could just drill the mounting flange on the 2.0 runners for the four-bolt pattern, huh?

--DD
__________________
Pelican Parts 914 Tech Support

A few pics of my car: http://www.pelicanparts.com/gallery/Dave_Darling
Old 09-25-2002, 02:14 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Brad Roberts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Alta Loma, CA
Posts: 1,840
Hey.. I learned something from this thread:

1.8 runners will work with the 2.0 plenum.

"I didnt know that"

Dont know that I'll ever need the info again... but I know now.

The funniest part (you quoted me) LOL LOL


B
Old 09-25-2002, 02:16 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Speedo959's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 682
I have the stock 1.7 runners on it already. I had to cut them down when they came up to the 2.0 plenum. I also had to heat and bend the 1.7 runners so that they would line up correctly. Then I found some hose that was the same diameter as the 2.0 plenum and clamped it down on both ends. It works pretty good so far. I have a friend with a stock 1.7 and he seems to think mine is faster. Yeah B I would be willing to install the stock stuff for comparison.
Old 09-25-2002, 05:21 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Brad Roberts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Alta Loma, CA
Posts: 1,840
Speedo,

send me your address.. I'll ship them off next week. I'm curious.

B
Old 09-25-2002, 07:35 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:37 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.