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Valve adjustment quandry

Tried to adj valves & am confused. In a adjustment instructions it says adj nuts are 13 mm, mine are 14 mm and have torsion springs on the rocker arms. When I reach up and move the arm toward the push tube, I have excessive clearance, so much so when I run the adj screw in there is very little of the screw protruding through the nut. Could this mean I have hyd lifters??? I never knew they used any hydraulics in these engines. I now know that there is some engs w/hyd. I tried to find eng number but it is illegabal. Any way to be sure it is hyd or solids? If hyd how do you adj them? I have adj all valves & I can turn eng over w/tire but afraid if hyd & start they will pump up & bend valves. I did have valves ticking before I started adj. thanks
Old 07-28-2014, 09:45 PM
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The adjusting lugs changed over to a larger size (8mm, I think) in 73, and the jam nuts went from 13mm to 14mm at the same time.

I'm not sure what you mean by torsion springs on the rocker arms. In stock form, there were coil springs around the rocker shaft that pushed the arms apart.

The later Buses that used Type IV engines (which are a slightly different form of our 914's engine) had hydraulic lifters. It was a fairly popular mod for a while to swap those, plus a compatible cam, in to the 914 engine. Often the springs around the rocker shaft were replaced with the solid spacers that were also used in the Buses--but that mod could also be done independently of the hydro conversion.

The most certain way to determine if you have hydro lifters is to pull one out and look. I cannot describe the differences very well in writing, but the hydros are longer and have extra bits in them. Some pics of a typical Type IV one can be found on this page: Hydraulic Lifters . The author there says, "If the lifter has an oiling hole in the side, a wide waist and a lock ring on the end, it's almost assuredly a hydraulic lifter but the only way to be 100% sure it to take it apart. Because after-market lifters look a little different than the factory solid lifters, identification can sometimes also be difficult."

I'm not exactly sure what you mean when you say that you move the arm toward the push tube. Are you setting the cylinder to TDC and then rocking the rocker arm downward by hand? That is the "book" procedure. You will often find that if one of the valves on a cylinder is open, the clearance on the other valve of that cylinder will be larger, which is why I don't trust myself to do the "Jim Thorusen/Cap'n Crusty" method.

--DD
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Old 07-29-2014, 06:22 AM
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Thanks for the reply, I will try to clarify my findings. The rocker shafts have the springs you are talking about holding the rocker arms apart. My eng also have a spring that appears to run from the rocker arm retainer stand that runs on top of the arm at the valve end which keeps the rocker arm pushed against the valve stem at all times. In order to even get a feeler guage in between the adj tip and valve stem I have to use a second hand to pull the rocker arm out to get the guage In between. I am bring each cyl up on their respective tdc. I too did not trust the wiggle method. I have adj valves on many different eng having over 45 years in auto and heavy trucks, but this one baffles me. Thanks again for the help I do appreciate it.
Old 07-30-2014, 04:55 AM
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I still don't understand the spring you are talking about. A picture would probably help.

Hmm.... It might be that you are describing the retaining wire for the pushrod tubes? Here's a closeup of part of the head; you can see the wire going across underneath the rocker shaft.




That wire hooks into the slots on the bottom of the rocker shaft holders, and the lower parts of it go on the pushrod tube shoulders. They push the tubes toward the centerline of the car to make sure they stay in place.

The wire is #13 in this pic:




You can see it going across the bottom of the rocker box in this pic:



--DD
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Old 07-30-2014, 06:27 AM
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Will take a close look when I get back from street rod nats I believe mine are installed wrong as mine are pushing my arms toward the valve stem not the push rod end. If that is possible. Thanks again
Old 07-30-2014, 10:20 AM
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It is pretty common for the springs to be installed wrong. When they are they can rub on the push rod and cause them to wear down. Better pull the rods out and check them for wear marks and replace if needed.
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Old 07-30-2014, 03:32 PM
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Thanks will pull it apart and ck now that I know for sure that something is amiss. Will let you know what I find. Thanks again
Old 07-30-2014, 05:46 PM
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Cked spring and pulled push tubes on #2 cyl & determined it has hyd lifters. Can push on lifter & can push in on lifter & lifter will spring back. Defenetly not a solid lifter. Now need to know how to adjust hyd lifters. Thanks
Old 08-03-2014, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funi View Post
Cked spring and pulled push tubes on #2 cyl & determined it has hyd lifters. Can push on lifter & can push in on lifter & lifter will spring back. Defenetly not a solid lifter. Now need to know how to adjust hyd lifters. Thanks
no adjustment required with the hyd lifters,just make sure you keep a good clean oil supply going to them.
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Old 08-03-2014, 12:45 PM
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Valves are adjusted as solids now, need to know what the initial set up procedure is. They are all to tight for hyd right now. Thanks again
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Opinions vary about the adjustment on hydros. One of the most common specs is zero clearance, plus 1 and 1/2 turns tighter--but only when the lifters are pumped up.

I have also seen 2 and 1/2 turns, or just plain zero, and almost everything in between.

--DD
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Old 08-03-2014, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave at Pelican Parts View Post
Opinions vary about the adjustment on hydros. One of the most common specs is zero clearance, plus 1 and 1/2 turns tighter--but only when the lifters are pumped up.

I have also seen 2 and 1/2 turns, or just plain zero, and almost everything in between.

--DD
Plain zero is normal, this is determained by pushrod length with a hyd lifter motor surely,any extra clearance would most likely cause more noise and wear,it has to work that way,its just me take on it....
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Old 08-03-2014, 10:59 PM
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Thanks I am going to set at 1/2 turn after the push tube hits the lifter w/ out depressing lifter. Change oil and filter run eng and get lifters pumped up and then reck adj to 1 1/2 turns. Does that seem to be a good strategy? Thanks to all
Old 08-05-2014, 08:36 PM
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Got it done went 1/2 turn and ran eng was noisy got lifters pumped and went 1 1/2 turn and ran it again sounds great now. Thanks again for the help
Old 08-15-2014, 10:48 PM
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