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Brad Roberts's Avatar
 
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PCA Club racing (Q's)

Ok.

We are going to run a 3.0 9146 in GT3S and I need some help with the rules.

Like this one:




I fully understand what they want above, but SCCA doesn't require a seat back brace IF you have FIA approved seat. Sooo.. what do other 914 people do ?

Anyone ??

One more thing... I didn't see it, (but SCCA requires it) what about the ignition switch steering column lock removal ??

B
Old 09-28-2002, 11:20 PM
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The rule change was a result of an unfortunate death of a PCA 911 racer when he spun and hit rear end first. The seat gave way and back of his head hit the roll bar. For 914s, this rule is some what questionable IMHO. However, I have seen folks apply a bracket btwn the fire wall and the seat. I will be at track this weekend to get a picture of a bracket.... maybe someone could post a picture before then???
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Old 09-29-2002, 02:36 AM
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Yeah, how exactly would you install a 'normal' brace in a 914 where the back of the seat and the firewall/cage are like 3" apart?

There is nowhere for the seat to go in that direction. Seems like this rule was written for 911/944 cars?
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1973 914 "R" (914-6) | track toy
2009 911 Turbo 6-speed (997.1TT) | street weapon
2001 F150 Supercrew 4x4 | tow vehicle
Old 09-29-2002, 09:28 AM
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I have a brace in mine even though I just vintage race. The seat is about 5 inches from the fire wall so I made a switchable brace that I switch when my daughter drives as she is taller than I am and the distance is only about 2.5 inches. I'd make one since you can NEVER win an argument with a tech inspector??? Good luck.
Old 09-29-2002, 01:59 PM
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Interesting...I just went over the POC GCR's again this a.m. and I didn't notice anything about seat braces. I never really looked but I don't remember seeing them in most of the cars either. Hmmm.

I guess I should add it to the project list.
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1973 914 "R" (914-6) | track toy
2009 911 Turbo 6-speed (997.1TT) | street weapon
2001 F150 Supercrew 4x4 | tow vehicle
Old 09-29-2002, 02:45 PM
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It's definately in some rule books and absent (for now) in others that I have. I think it is coming soon to a rule book near you, so stay tuned. There are few cars like the 914 w/ the bulkhead/firewall inches from the back of the seat that I know of. Fiat X19 and Fiero are a couple that I can think of. You might see an exemption for the 914, but the rules commitees are getting tough on seat mounts and bracing. I have to agree with them. It's hard to drive the car from the back seat.
Old 09-29-2002, 04:01 PM
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One of the proposed rule changes this year is the elimination of this rule if your FIA seat does not require a back brace. However, it is up to you to prove that it is not required. They will decide on the rules before the end of the year.
Old 09-30-2002, 04:31 AM
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Thanks Mark,

Our SCCA 914's have the FIA papers taped to the side of the seat (for tech inspections) We had to ask MOMO for the paperwork, but they sent it very quickly.

This will be the first car I have fielded in a PCA race since 1998.

PCA just didnt run any races remotely close to us (go figure) 4 road race courses within 4 hours of the shop.

Masuo Robinson has done a great job of bringing PCA club racing back to NorCal.


B
Old 09-30-2002, 10:45 AM
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Is it enough just to have an FIA seat, or you have to have certain ones that were certified w/o a brace? (In other words isn't the FIA label on the seat good enough, or you need more docs?)
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1973 914 "R" (914-6) | track toy
2009 911 Turbo 6-speed (997.1TT) | street weapon
2001 F150 Supercrew 4x4 | tow vehicle
Old 09-30-2002, 03:55 PM
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You can interpret this how you want, it is a direct lift from PCA.

PCA Proposed Rule changes for 2003

Safety Rules-Equipment

15. Eliminate the requirement of a seat back brace on seats where the manufactures specifically recommend not using a brace and the seat mounting follows all manufacture's recommendations. The driver shall be required to provide written documentation.
Old 10-01-2002, 06:47 AM
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How about when you're 6'4", driving a 914, and the racing seat is bolted to the floor, and the back of the seat rests securely against the firewall. The roll cage is built around the seat. HOw would PCA read that one?
Old 10-01-2002, 07:03 AM
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I asked a local tech that is traveling to most of the PCA races to do the inspections and the implementation on 914's is if the seat is against the firewall and can not move it is okay. If it can move, then it fails. That means most tall drivers that have the seat all the way back are okay and us normal people have to use a brace. If there is a gap of several inches then a spacer is put in the make the seat back solid.
Old 10-01-2002, 07:53 AM
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Don Newton, do you have any photos of your rollcage? I am 6'3" and have been struggling with ideas for a roll cage that won't sacrifice any precious leg room, and would like to see your set up. Also, is it something you built yourself, pre fabbed, or did you get a shop to do it?
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Old 10-07-2002, 06:06 AM
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jdogg,

cut the cross brace out on the floor and use a FIA approved seat and seat brackets moounted straight to the floor. Remove the cushion they install in the seat and just sit on the seat. This allows my 6'4 drivers to get under the main hoop legally with a helmet on.

If your real close to not fitting.. use the foam bead method and make your own seat on the floor of the car ala open wheel car styled.

B
Old 10-07-2002, 11:07 AM
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Thanks Brad. The other thing I'm concerned with is the
diagonal bar that goes from the main hoop to the upright
on the passenger's side. That bar seems to force the
passenger's seat forward as well. My car is not a serious
race car - weekend cruiser, autocrosser, and plans for some DE
events next year after roll bar and harnesses, so passenger
comfort is an issue as well. I have been unable to find many
other teeners in this area - especially any with any competition
aspirations, to look first hand at what others have done.
I have in my youth done some oval racing, and because I always knew more thaneveryone else (haha) I got myself into situations where I had to redo stuff because it was wrong. I have finally learned from that and try to research stuff so I can do it right the first time.
How much of a PITA is it to get a bolt-in roll bar (not full cage) and put it in when needed and remove it when not? I wouldn't worry so much about passenger comfort on long trips that way.
Would just a roll bar be sufficient protection for the blinding speeds that a 2.0 puts out at driver's ed events? Also, by cutting that brace and putting in the FIA approved seat, would that make for a major PITA to swap back in the stock seat for normal cruising?
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Old 10-07-2002, 11:40 AM
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jdogg,

The brace behind the passenger only moves the seat forward 3 "clicks" on the sliders. Remove the foam kick panel and they gain some more leg room.

Removing that brace comes at a time when you decide this is a race car that will occasionally see the street. Your stock seat will not mount back in after cutting that brace out.

I personally hate bolt in cages, but I'm in the business of welding in cages... so I am biased towards my own welfare.

PCA does not require the diagonal that you may have seen in my pics... Only SCCA when you dont have bars going back from the main hoop.

B
Old 10-07-2002, 11:47 AM
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Thanks again for your insight Brad. Even though you don't like the bolt in bars, have you ever considered converting your design
for the main hoop and selling them. I like the way your stuff ties
together, looks good.
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Old 10-07-2002, 12:15 PM
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Sooner or later... more than likely later.. we will have a weld in kit with our cage design.

I know a lot of people who have bought bolt in cages thinking they would unbolt them when they needed too.. I havent seen any of them ever unbolt them.

We do build some of the cages with a bolt in Petty bar (the diagonal)... but have yet to see anybody unbolt them ha ha..

B
Old 10-07-2002, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brad Roberts
We do build some of the cages with a bolt in Petty bar (the diagonal)... but have yet to see anybody unbolt them ha ha..
B
Don't speak too soon grasshopper...

I found a line in the POC GCR's saying "no passengers allowed if any portion of the cage crosses the passenger space"..."no exceptions" or something to that effect. They haven't teched my car yet though.

I'm not sure about the local SoCal PCA weenies yet

If I do have to cut-out the petty bar I want to convert it to a bolt-in as opposed to losing it entirely, that would just be dumb. I just need to drive w/ instructors in the car probably 6 or 8 times max in the next couple years.
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1973 914 "R" (914-6) | track toy
2009 911 Turbo 6-speed (997.1TT) | street weapon
2001 F150 Supercrew 4x4 | tow vehicle
Old 10-07-2002, 06:24 PM
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POC and I are not getting along... this just adds to the fire.

They take our money and let us race with them. The very next event we want to attend, they throw us in a different group and tell us we cant race with them (WTFO??) WTF-Over. It appears they only want us when they dont have enough of their own people to cover an event. It would have been nice of them to let us know this before we paid all the money and jumped through their hoops. They pumped us up about running with them and fed us full of sh_t at a NorCal event then turned their back's on us after all the checks cleared. Kiss MY white ASS POC.

Sh_t is what they will get from me.

B
Old 10-07-2002, 09:29 PM
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