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todd914's Avatar
 
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Gas Prices...

I am amazed at the gas prices quoted on this thread. Gas in San Antonio Tx is $1.13 per gallon for regular and $1.26 for premium. It usually doesnt go above $1.30 for regular though but we have had our months of high gas prices. I have never had an emissions check either.
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Actually,the 914 is a "Poor Man's Porsche". You buy one and you end up poor...Or it ends up covered with Por 15? Either way, something's poor...
Old 09-29-2002, 11:21 PM
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Gas Prices

The words I would like to use to discribe my feeling about gas prices& the gasoline distribution practises Dave would throw me off this site for ever.Gas prices in NW Ohio are$ 1.35 reg. ,$ 1.45 , & $ 1.55. But we are told that we should feel good because it came down .20 cents a gallon last week.
Herein my area gas prices change for one part on town to another. And its not based on the econmicsof the area,ie; high prices may be in the poorer part of town or not.
Don't I remember the U.S. People giving a group headed by British Petroleum the rights to the North Slope, because we needed it so bad in the U.S. Why does most of that production now go to Japan??
If you ask some one in that industry about the prices, there canned responce is " We only set the wholesale price,retail is set by our independent dealers". B_ _ l S_ _t, I cant think of a independent dealer in N.W.Ohio. All are company owned Gas and Goes. Well I guess I vented a little and feal better,
My 2 cents Dave
Old 09-30-2002, 02:14 AM
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Boo Hoo, try paying over four Quid (6.22 bucks) a gallon in the UK
Old 09-30-2002, 03:47 AM
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Mass transit

Yes but you guys actually have a mass transit system. I thought it was very effective overall.
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Actually,the 914 is a "Poor Man's Porsche". You buy one and you end up poor...Or it ends up covered with Por 15? Either way, something's poor...
Old 09-30-2002, 09:41 AM
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WARNING: Major rant ahead......

The price you pay for gasoline (in the United States) is the best deal you will ever get. It is cheaper than bottled water at the 7-11 for crissake! It is cheaper now than ever before if you factor in inflation.

As far as the north slope is concerned, crude oil is a commodity. The price is set by speculators who use the laws of supply and demand. It does not matter where the oil goes. If it is produced and for sale, it adds to supply thus lowering the price it demands. The Alaskan north slope does not produce enough oil to completely supply North America and never will.

Check out the percentage of taxes you pay on every gallon of gas.
Check out the wholesale price of gasoline.

Never mind, I will do it for you:

At $1.16 a gallon, the oil company that is producing it is losing money on every gallon.

The wholesale price of that gallon is going to be around 68 cents in texas.
Taxes make up around 45 cents in California, not sure about Texas. The distributor (pipeline and or trucking) takes about 1 to 3% depending how far it has to be moved.
The dealer has to make at least 10% to stay in business. How many small business' can operate at a 10% profit level? not many.

The company owned stations pay labor, mortgages, operating taxes and expenses, etc. At 10% they are barely breaking even.
Some stations try to make a little bit on many gallons sold. Some try to make a more on less gallons. If it is so profitable to be in the gas station business why don't we all get into it? You make it sound like it's easy to make a small fortune by selling gas. The only time that's true is if you start with a large fortune.

The crude price is around $30 a bbl for light sweet crude (42 gal), so that works out to be 71 1/2 cents a gallon. On top of that there are operating expenses (OPEX) of around $2.50 to $3 a barrel. That's the cost to turn oil into gas.

Some refineries can operate using a little less expensive stuff (heavy sour), but that makes the operating expenses go up, adversely effecting the bottom line unless the discount is large (which it isn't).

The big bad oil company is paying well over $30 a barrel to make gasoline and selling it to you for $28. Man, they are really ripping you off.

last year when the gas prices were up around $1.75 the big bad oil companies were making around 3% profit. Those B*stards!

This year they are lucky if they break even and they are still the bad guys.

Please do some research before bad mouthing a business sector. oil companies would more than double their profits if they just stopped refining and put all their money in T-bills.

PS, I expect next year the refining business to get back to where it is profitable (around 1.5% return on investment) so the prices will be higher. If crude stays the same, you will be paying alot more than $1.16 (and rightfully so).

If you doubt these facts, check out Tesoro (TSO) or Valero (VLO) or even Exxon-Mobil (XOM).

BTW, Valero is the #2 refining and marketing company in North America (2 million bbls per day) and is only keeping their head above water because they have refineries in California and Canada which are still profitable enough to barely make up for the losses in the gulf Coast and East coast region.

I hate threads where people complain about the price of gas.
I wish everything were so cheap. If Porsches were this much of a bargain you could buy a new Carrera for the price of a Hyundai.
Old 09-30-2002, 09:55 AM
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If it was such a "miniscule profit", then why the hell wont they stop using oil, hmm???? Largest merger in history was an oil merger. You think that every ounce of oil that's produced goes into gas?F@ck no(ie.plastics) . I hate it when people act like the gas companies are doing us a favor and that they are not making any money off of it. If you are a small operating corner store, sell something more profitable like biodiesel or something that's gonna keep a few more of us here a little while longer. But dont get all sensitive about people that hate gas prices. OIL COMPANIES ARE THE BIGGEST CROOKS IN THE WORLD!!
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Actually,the 914 is a "Poor Man's Porsche". You buy one and you end up poor...Or it ends up covered with Por 15? Either way, something's poor...
Old 09-30-2002, 10:13 AM
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Good points on both sides...

It should be noted that to date, the market economy has accepted petro-based fuels and not things like biomass, hydrogen fuel cells, electrovoltaic solar, and so forth. Some of these alternate power sources have good potential for the future (after a few $billion more in R&D). Today, they are just about all TOO EXPENSIVE. The oil and natural gas industries are big and powerful because they have a product that works here and now, is universally available, and CHEAP.

Give me a "cleaner" alternative that works at least as well and costs maybe the same, up to perhaps twice as much, and I'm there. Most of us have been reading about these wonder fuels for the 21st century since about 1974.
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Old 09-30-2002, 10:32 AM
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fuel cells...electric power...with gas @ 1.50 a gal. this is a dream. My od mans Mercury MArque gets 27 mpg on the Highway and better than 20 city....
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Old 09-30-2002, 11:31 AM
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Filled the crew cab up last night (1.78 for regular) I have seen it around 1.82.

Its the taxes that kill Ca. Texas has about half the gas taxes that Ca. has.

And dont give me this crap about supply and delivery (not you Sammy) I live 20 miles from Chevron.

We have it easy, go to Europe some time and carry lube with you. They get you at the pump big time. I have a funny feeling its their taxes also. They should be able to buy crude at the same price our refineries do.

B
Old 09-30-2002, 11:57 AM
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Don't forget, CA also has a state-mandated CA-only gasoline formula. Yup, the refineries have to mix up a special blend just for us! That, of course, costs them extra money. And how do they recover that? Yup--from the consumer.

I chuckle when I see people complaining about gas prices that are 60-75% of what I see every day. And I still feel sorry for our European brethren, because they have it a whole lot worse than us. And yes, most of that seems to be the taxes. Though from what I have read it supposedly isn't a money-grab by the EC gov'ts, but more of an effort to get people to use public transit in preference to private automobiles.

--DD
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Old 09-30-2002, 12:01 PM
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$1.89.9 for 91 lately around here. Due to over 15 years of 911 ownership, i learned what gas the 2.7 CIS motor likes and doesn't like. W/O going into brands, let's just say that lower priced stations sell crap for gas. I always use major brands and buy good stuff. For my PU, I use 89. runs fine on 87 from shell, Chevron, Unocal, but I buy 89. BTW, I have over 170,000 on the throttle body and I have never touched it.

Cheap 91 in the 911 used to diesel like crazy when you shut it down. And it was real snotty in the morn as well. Good gas for me even if its $ 2.50/ gal.
Old 09-30-2002, 12:56 PM
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I agree with Sammy that gas in CHEAP here. Most US cities have some sort of mass transit system (buses, lite rail).
I was in Suriname, South America last month and the price of gas was about 1.75 US. There everyone has a car or 2 or 3 cars. They have to drive as there is no mass transit system except for these funky little buses. You can't go anywhere unless you drive! The roads are a joke too, I would never drive a 914 there as it would last til the first huge pothole. Also there are no freeways or anything near to one so traffic sucks worse than Seattle. Suriname exports most of the oil it produces to the world market so it has lots to supply to the local market and it is still more expensive than the US.
I think we have it real gud here, so quit your *****in.
Geoff
(I remember the 74 oil mess very well, the fistfights in the gas lines!)
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Old 09-30-2002, 01:26 PM
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everybody needs to watch the discovery/history channel documentary about gasoline, i caught the last couple of minutes, most if not all the gas we buy comes through a pipeline, doesn't matter if it's shell, chevron, mobil, BP, what makes the brands different is the additive packages they use, which are added right at the stations, gas isn't the only thing that gets pumped down the pipeline, you've got kerosene, heating oil, there is a certain amount of mixing that occurs, but they measure the Ph levels to determine when to change tanks, you fellas complain about auto fuels, aviation fuels average $2.25 a gallon (100 low lead not Jet A), some places are $3.00, airplanes burn gas by the hour/pound, usual fill ups in a light airplane are $50.00, 100LL has to be trucked from refinery to airport, the lead would contaminate the pipeline

yeah we all like to see low gas prices, but we really don't have that much say in matter(we could all stop driving), imagine what happens if Iraq gets invaded again, then we'll see expensive gas
Old 09-30-2002, 01:54 PM
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No complaints from me.

We pay 4.75 a gallon for race fuel. One weekend can cost 500$ in race gas. Luckily 2 of our cars race on pump gas.

Let us all know when the Discovery channel thing airs again. I would like to see it.

B
Old 09-30-2002, 01:58 PM
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I think That is the real reason Bush wants to invade Iraq so his friends in the oil business can get rich!
Durn Texans!
Geoff
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Old 09-30-2002, 03:03 PM
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I'll second that! D***ed Texans--they're all ***holes and they like to cut up irreplaceable old furrin cars!!

Plus they drive big trucks and don't care what it costs to fill'em up!

--DD
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Old 09-30-2002, 04:02 PM
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living on the gulf coast has been an experience, yes i've seen the whole range of redneck bubba's, i've worked at a car wash and have seen all the empty SUV's, makes me sick to my stomach, the cheap skates turn off the AC just before they come in, so i got to roast inside the vehicle before maxing out the AC and blower

anyhow, there's alot more reasons to go to Iraq besides gas

hey brad
you should try AVGAS 100LL, it's great stuff, about 110 octane when compared to unleaded fuels, problem is you have to compensate for the 2 grams of lead per gallon of fuel(your valves might not like it), had some sprint car drivers come by every now and then at the local airport back home, they'd cut it with regular fuel
Old 09-30-2002, 04:55 PM
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Ha ha DD..

My monthly gas bill would support the country of Ethiopia.

I used avgas for years. I used to steal it from planes when I had a hanger we used for building 914's in Grand Prairie Texas (I was 16-17) I figured out that the small planes had a petcock valve that I could drain from. Worked good.

B
Old 09-30-2002, 05:06 PM
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Brad, you get a bye I guess for your age, but good thing some schmuck didn't skip his pre-flight and take off thinking he had 5 more gallons than he did. {This is more of a caution to others who might read the thread and get a bright idea on obtaining 100LL.}
Old 09-30-2002, 05:32 PM
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please don't go stealing avgas right out of airplanes, that's a pretty hefty felony charge if you get caught, any small airport operator probably wouldn't mind selling you the fuel, just don't go to any of the bigger airports, they'll blow you off
Old 09-30-2002, 08:10 PM
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