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Question Stock cam re-grind question

Is it possibe to have the stock cam re-ground to a grind other than stock, to provide a little touch of oomph? I am having the stock cam reground and have heard that the stock grind is a little soft.... I cannot and probably will not be able to tell when I drive it, but it costs $120 to have it re-ground, and I would rather do it the right way now than decide a few weeks down the road that I should have gone with something else.
Jake Raby mentioned the Web Cam 73, but I could not find any info at the web site. In fact, i couldnt even find the Web Cam 73.
So, I guess I could have saved you the trouble of reading this by asking what I can do with the stock cam, if anything, to make it perform a little better. Thanks in Advance, Chris
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Old 10-04-2002, 09:02 PM
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Going by the experience of the guys on the Shoptalk Forums BBS, notably Jake, don't bother with the re-grind. Go Web-Cam all the way.

http://www.webcamshafts.com/volkswagen-auto.html
(Scroll down to "Type 4".)

Some people don't think that the #73 grind will work with D-jet FI; others say that it's not a real problem. I don't know myself, I've never tried to make it work.

BTW, we can also provide you with Web-Cam camshafts and lifters.

--DD
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Old 10-04-2002, 09:26 PM
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http://www.webcamshafts.com

lift .426
duration 262
duration @ .050 224
grind number 73

Good overall power for engines with stock fuel-injection. Designed for mechanical lifters.

The cam is only one piece of the puzzle and to some extent only moves the availible power up or down the rpm range. To make more power overall the engine must be thought of as an assembly in which many parts must be considered when making changes

I was ignorant and misinformed when I made my cam purchase. In my defence I will state that my decision was made long before these type IV BBSs existed, but since their arival, I was able to make the decision to never start the engine until I replace the cam.

The specs on the cam I purchased would roughly make power up to 8000 rpm, this is about 2500 more than the rest of the engine wanted to go. In addition the cheap brasilian lifters would have most likely embedded themselves throughout the oil systems and bearings in the short moments after startup.

Good luck with your choice, it seems like your on the way to making a well informed one, ulike my first one.
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Old 10-04-2002, 09:43 PM
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I haven't bought a cam in a long time, but unless something has changed in the industry, the "inexpensive" performance cams were regrind of a stock cam.

WEB cam is located in Riverside, CA.

Machining a billet blank, grinding the lobe profile, rehardening the lobe face and then straightening the cam is an expensive process. Billet cams require different lifters than stock due to the difference in metallurgy.
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Old 10-05-2002, 06:56 AM
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Evidently the lifters that are compatible with the stock cam are now NLA, or at least hard to find reliably. Or rather, you can find them, but there seem to be real questions if they will last through the engine break-in period. (Or if they will let the cam last long enough.)

I don't know this for a fact myself--but I've been spooked enough by reading on Shoptalk that I will probably be going Web-Cam on any Type IV rebuild in my future.

--DD
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Old 10-05-2002, 07:54 AM
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Dave, can Pelican provide the Web Cam 73? Or should I buy it direct from web cam? Thanks
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Old 10-05-2002, 09:50 AM
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I thought there were some driveabilty issues with the #73 webcam vs the stock grind. Brad Anders recommends the stock grind with the Djet FI or you are going to have some issues with the idle.
Am I wrong here or does the #73 work 100% with Djet?
Geoff
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Old 10-05-2002, 10:24 AM
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We can supply the #73 grind, just call and ask. I think it would be the same price as the other Web-Cams in the catalog.

Brad is one of the guys who is dubious about the 73 working properly with D-jet. So I Kap'n Krusty over on the 914 Rennlist e-mail list. Some of the folks over at the Shoptalk forums say it works fine as long as you tweak the D-jet to match.

No experience myself.

--DD
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Old 10-05-2002, 11:34 AM
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I finished my engine rebuild project a few months ago. I bought WebCam #73 grind and lifters from WebCam at the same time. Its is a 2.0L engine with US spec P&Cs. I was very meticulous about building the engine and spent megabucks for all necessary machine work. The motor fired right up and has been running for 10K miles without any issues. The power is good and I don't have any drivability problems. I get good torque from 2~5K RPM, and once warmed up, the idle is silky smooth. The cold idle quality is better than acceptable. I have not tweaked the fuel injection other than normal setup procedure. Fuel economy is 30mpg for highway driving at speeds of 80~100mph.

I have studied all available information on stock vs. WebCam #73, and IMHO, subtle issues may be encountered if an engine equipped with the WebCam must be tuned to pass any stringent emission requirements. I am not concerned with this issue since my car is old enough to be exempt from emission testing in the state of California.

If I were required to build a smog-able motor, I would have gone with the stock cam and lifters. Furthermore, I would have bought the parts from a Porsche dealer, with PORSCHE markings all over them, to ensure that they were properly matched.
Old 10-05-2002, 02:15 PM
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seventythree, there was no need to go with different pushrods while using the #73?
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Old 10-05-2002, 02:17 PM
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No. I used the stock pushrods. I also switched to 911 style swivel foot adjusters and was able to work out the rocker geometry issues by modifying & shimming the rockers. I had to figure this one out for myself since most available information was incorrect, or sketchy at best.
Old 10-05-2002, 05:57 PM
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Do you mean 911 adjustment screws? I looked for swivel foot adjusters and couldnt find anything. Could you please elaborate as to what these are? Thanks
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Old 10-05-2002, 06:58 PM
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Heres a pcture: http://www.empius.com/a/allenheadvalve.html
they are available from a lot of specialty parts houses. Pelican doesn't list them, but I'm sure you can order them.
Old 10-05-2002, 07:22 PM
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I think I am going to go with the stock grind web-cam.
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Old 10-05-2002, 10:25 PM
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Swivel foot adjusters are just that, the end of the adjuster that hits the valve end is attached to the screw with a ball and socket joint. So the two flat surfaces of the valve end and the tappet always strike evenly. The result is less noise and no wear to the adjuster and valve end.
You have to use the Porsche ones as others are made out of cheaper metals and pound out pretty fast.
It's a nice option to do to a motor but not necessary. If you are rebuilding a motor then replace the stock adjusters with new Porsche ones. Don't reuse old pitted adjusters on a rebuilt motor with a new cam/lifters.
Geoff
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Old 10-06-2002, 07:18 AM
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That's the same cam that's in my 9,000 mile special rebuild! It seems to be a popular choice. Hope you have better luck with your engine than I did with mine.

Jon
Old 10-06-2002, 12:38 PM
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My view is that given the finecky nature of D-Jet, especially with idle vacuum, for best drivability, the stock cam is the safe way to go. As for the WC73, ss DD says, John Larson says "don't do it", and JL's built far more engines than most people who post here. Others say it works fine. It's a hard one to call.
Old 10-06-2002, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by seventythree

I have studied all available information on stock vs. WebCam #73, and IMHO, subtle issues may be encountered if an engine equipped with the WebCam must be tuned to pass any stringent emission requirements. I am not concerned with this issue since my car is old enough to be exempt from emission testing in the state of California.
This is one of John Larson's concerns with the 73. The problem is with HC emissions. You can "fix" it for the purpose of passing the test by opening up the valve adjustment from 0.006/0.008 to 0.010/0.012. Yes, it will clatter, but it won't hurt it. Close it back to stock specs after you pass the test.

I've heard of guys opening it for the test as wide as 0.020 for more radical cams. Must make a hell of a noise.
Old 10-06-2002, 04:48 PM
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chrisreale,

I have been checking into the #73 Web Cam as well, and found that they also make one for hydraulic lifters #107I. It has .430 lift (vs .426 for 73), and 255deg duration (vs 262).

The only additional cost is for different push-rod tubes for the hydraulic lifters (approx $110.00).

Haven't decided which one I want to go with. I like the idea of hydraulic lifters though.

Have fun!
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Old 10-06-2002, 05:29 PM
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Actually, you need different pushrods--not tubes.

Do a search through the archives here and on the Shoptalk Forums Type IV BBS on "hydraulic cam". You'll see a lot of debate on the subject.

Maybe I'm easily spooked, but I don't think I'll be putting a hydro cam in my 914.

--DD
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Old 10-07-2002, 05:58 AM
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