Whats a good aftermarket F.I. System

[flmont]

I think Iam going with the 2.4 or 2.5,..build on my 2.0 914,..and would like to run FI instead of carbs,..any suggestion's on what and where to buy ,...such a system,..?? Thanks Frank

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

How deep down the rabbit hole do you want to go? There are systems that are mostly complete (CB Performance sells one), there are systems that provide a lot but not all of the stuff you need (SDS EFI for example), there are others that sell you controllers and you have to supply the "hard parts" like manifolds and so on (Motec among others sells that), you can buy a simple ECUs that are completely programmable (DIYAutotune and others sell those), or you can go with a collection of components you solder together and then program (Megasquirt, Microsquirt, etc.).

They all have pluses and minuses. They all make different assumptions about your system. The simplest ones are not very programmable; the most expensive ones are very flexible and programmable but dealing with that flexibility can be difficult. Some require you to use independent throttle bodies, others require a single plenum, and some will let you go either way.

--DD

[porschetub]

CB Performance system is fairly basic in what it provides...but from what I have read functions well,good fuel economy and a small power increase,the key issues are $$$,you can go further but the setup cost is high with tuneable systems as Dave has pointed out.
You appear to be looking @ a large displacement increase @ and thats fine but add that to EFI and you are knocking on the door of a big money (Raby) build.

[flmont]

Well,...Iam going with a 3500.00 rebuild thru European motorworks in Hawthorne,ca,..so that means 103 MM jugs,large crank,and a large valve job and cam to match,But I didnt want to run carbs,.I do want a FI system that works with this setup,install it and forget it,..If thats possible.They stated 150 HP at the Flywheel,But double the torque,which I liked that Idea,..I want Hiway speeds to around a 100 MPH,..But ,.be able to pull mountain roads also,So they tell me thats a reliable build,...I think Raby's are a bit over priced,..unless they do 180 HP and be reliable,..Hell I dont know,...But Thanks Guys,..I really wanted the 2.5 build from Mr Nugent,..but.not reliable Iam sure..if I could get 40K street use Id go for that ..LOL..

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

Raby's motors are more than 180HP, for the most part. But they're even more money than you think.

I wouldn't trust a $3500 motor farther than I could throw it. At that price, some very significant corners are being cut. It's easy to spend over $1K just on the heads, especially if you're trying to build them to support 300 lb-ft of torque. (Which is a figure I have strong doubts about, too.)

The 103 cast-iron cylinders don't exactly have lots of fin area to help with heat--and the cast iron is not as good at moving heat as aluminum is. Add to that the QC problems we've seen with out-of-round, barrel length, diameter consistency, and so on, plus the fact that they seem to change shape slightly once run for a while. Those mean that an engine with 103mm P&Cs usually doesn't last very long.

If you're going cheap with the motor, I suggest you do the cheap and easy thing with the FI and run carbs.

--DD

[flmont]

Well,..Cheap wasnt the intent,..thats just what they qouted me,..I dont know much about it thats why I was sending it out,..However,..Iam game for a raby motor if its reliable,..???
I was told those (3500.00 ) guys have been at it for years with good results,..Now I have to reconsider,..Raby doesnt do Type 4 anymore,.from what I hear...so now what,..I guess just build a hyped up stk build ???? What the best thing I could do to get a strong running 914,..thats really what Iam after,..I would love 180 HP in a 914 tho,... Thanks Dave

[porschetub]

Originally Posted by flmont

Well,..Cheap wasnt the intent,..thats just what they qouted me,..I dont know much about it thats why I was sending it out,..However,..Iam game for a raby motor if its reliable,..???
I was told those (3500.00 ) guys have been at it for years with good results,..Now I have to reconsider,..Raby doesnt do Type 4 anymore,.from what I hear...so now what,..I guess just build a hyped up stk build ???? What the best thing I could do to get a strong running 914,..thats really what Iam after,..I would love 180 HP in a 914 tho,... Thanks Dave

Daves really right on the cost,heads are major cost,Raby heavily works replacement aftermarket ones and that is a big $$$ job ,personally its a real crapshoot working stock ones for big power cause that involves more heat and these old heads have been there and done that,they have usually gone soft and weak and don't support oversize valve seats in the long term,the end result is VERY messy.
By the way I have many dead heads ( ) in my garage I wouldn't use again.
Check what glademister has done on here with his racecar,that engine will kick ass,plenty of power for a street car also,sorry but don't think your build will include a dyno test with those results for that money.

[flmont]

Thanks,..Porschetub,..I will do that...Frank

[flmont]

Porschetub,..How can I get to glademister,..Thanks

[Southbay356]

are there any budget slide valve throttle body set-ups that are streetable ?

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

Raby still builds Type IV motors, but he is booked something like two years out. I'm not sure any of the ones that he is building are under 200 HP any more, but they are serious cubic dollars. (Six or eight times the amount I paid for my 914!)

If reliability is your main concern, a stockish motor is probably your best bet. Depending on what you already have, a 2056cc (96mm bore X 71mm stroke) can give you a nice moderate amount of power for not a huge outlay, and it should last for about as long as a stock motor would.

I think that McMark at Original Customs will build a reasonable 2056 for something over $5K. Unless you want the experience of doing the build yourself, that may be a good option. I trust him more than I trust European Motorworks. (I've known Mark for years and he's a good guy; EMW may or may not be the place that was associated with now-very-ex-Pelican Steve Stromberg who I wouldn't trust with a water baloon. I hope they're not, but that price sounds familiar.)

Again, there are lots of options out there. Doing more of the work yourself will save you money, but it takes time and tools and you have to understand there is a possibility of screwing it up.


BTW, Glademeister is the user handle of a member here who has done a race-car restoration on a 914 recently. Check for recent threads by him. I think he had his motor redone recently by FAT Performance in Orange CA.

--DD

[porschetub]

Originally Posted by flmont

Porschetub,..How can I get to glademister,..Thanks

He is on this forum and has been very busy with his build of a cone racer,just scroll down in the list here you will find him,cheers.

Edit, sorry DD has already answered.....I need to read more?

[The Glademister]

Originally Posted by flmont

Porschetub,..How can I get to glademister,..Thanks

I'm here after a fun weekend of racing the 914. Send me a PM and I'll let you know how great this FAT Performance 2056 build is!

[flmont]

Well,..FAT whats 7800.00 to do a 2058,..type 4,..which is 155 HP or so,..with a MAX of 175 LBs of torque at like 3500 RPM,...,..that price does include a mock-up service fee,.to make it idiot proof for me to assemble,..and be reliable,...8 K to do a 4 cyl. engine Damn times have changed,..But I didnt even think those performance numbers were even possible untill the last year or so anyway,.. I paid 2800.00 for a 914 in boxes,..so I would end up with a 12K,...Car,...?? Hmmm I have no idea what to do ...But THANKS to everyone for guiding me along ,...Frank

[porschetub]

Originally Posted by flmont

Well,..FAT whats 7800.00 to do a 2058,..type 4,..which is 155 HP or so,..with a MAX of 175 LBs of torque at like 3500 RPM,...,..that price does include a mock-up service fee,.to make it idiot proof for me to assemble,..and be reliable,...8 K to do a 4 cyl. engine Damn times have changed,..But I didnt even think those performance numbers were even possible untill the last year or so anyway,.. I paid 2800.00 for a 914 in boxes,..so I would end up with a 12K,...Car,...?? Hmmm I have no idea what to do ...But THANKS to everyone for guiding me along ,...Frank

Yep thats the way it is,still cheaper than a six conversion.......ask me how i know.

A good well built/setup 1914 on carbs isn't to be sniffed @ very common conversion,it provides close to original 914/6 power without the huge cost of the six conversion,remember this is a very light car with the handling to provide a very enjoyable driving experience...thats why I bought one.

[flmont]

Yea,..12K for a great 914 I dont guess is that bad,..I dont have that much $$ on hand but I can do a little at a time,..,..I dont know if a boxster is the same fun,..as a strong running 914 Hell I can get a 2000 boxster for 8-10 K,..now,..But they are way more pricey to fix I bet,...

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by Dave at Pelican Parts

Raby's motors are more than 180HP, for the most part. But they're even more money than you think.

I wouldn't trust a $3500 motor farther than I could throw it. At that price, some very significant corners are being cut. It's easy to spend over $1K just on the heads, especially if you're trying to build them to support 300 lb-ft of torque. (Which is a figure I have strong doubts about, too.)

The 103 cast-iron cylinders don't exactly have lots of fin area to help with heat--and the cast iron is not as good at moving heat as aluminum is. Add to that the QC problems we've seen with out-of-round, barrel length, diameter consistency, and so on, plus the fact that they seem to change shape slightly once run for a while. Those mean that an engine with 103mm P&Cs usually doesn't last very long.

If you're going cheap with the motor, I suggest you do the cheap and easy thing with the FI and run carbs.

--DD

LOL, the only motor I ever built that cost $3500 or more made 1100 hp.

I sold the 914 2 liter turbo car for less than $3500.

I could do 150 hp for $2500.

Evidently I use PFM.

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

Have you priced parts recently, Sammy? Prices have not gone down... My guess is that you also weren't going for 100K mile reliability, so you didn't see the point in spending money on some of the stuff. Not to mention that all of the stock arts are quite a bit older now than when you but the turbo car.

Not PFM, just not a recent Type IV build.

--DD