914 v. 911 front suspension

[bhfast]

aside from 3.5" caliper spacing are there any advantages of 911 front suspension over the 914.

Brian

[Paul_Heery]

Yes.

[jdogg]

Good answer Paul. Seriously, aside from the obvious better braking and larger wheel selection with the five lug, are there any other real advantages to be gained. Do the control arms swap in? What's the advantage there, more torsion bar selections available?
Seems to me, the 914 front end is pretty tunable as it is, just swapping struts in from a 911(brakes, 19mm m/c, etc.), new bushings, and turbo tie rods would be all the upgrade needed.
Am I wrong?

[John2kx]

I am converting my stock suspension/brakes to 911/914 pieces this week. Just received my stuff from Rich Johnson and am very impressed with his workmanship.

I was confused with all the variations of 914 and 911 stuff and after having the parts laid out in front of me, it is all clear now. If you guys want to see any particular pics, let me know.

I'll be installing 911 M struts in front with Bilsteins along with 914-6 rear hubs and brakes. Work won't start until Thursday morning and should go on through the weekend.

I know Brad, you can do this in 5 hours : )

John

[JWest]

jdogg - you've got it right. 911 control arms are perfectly interchangeable. The difference is that they have different T-bar splines so you can get larger used bars from a heavier later 911 for cheap. Everything else you said was also correct.

[campbellcj]

Also the later 911's (74- I think) used an aluminum cross-member, which is lighter than the stock steel 914 unit, but also not as strong. Several people have told me that they flex and might not be a great idea for a track car, despite the weight savings.

You have to weld the "U" tabs for the swaybar links onto later 911 A-arms, if you use them. The thru-body type of swaybar had a different attachment setup.

On my car, we're just swapping in the 911 struts and possibly the (newer) steering rack. Keeping the 914 A-arms and cross-member for now. New turbo tie rods, bushings, ball joints, and swaybar.

[kevinseven]

Who is this Rich Johnson and how do you get in touch with him? I've seen his name on this list a couple of times. I'm in Georgia too and I've got a set of 16 x 6 Fuchs and adaptors sitting in my garage that I'm too chicken to put on. I'd love to buy a full 911 conversion instead as a kit from somebody. Would John2kx be willing to talk about what he spent on his set up? Thanks.

kevin

[74914]

Are the 911 M struts the 3” ones? I’m used to hearing the M designation referenced to the caliper, not the strut.

John2kx
Just to better understand your new setup, is this what you got?

Early 911 M calipers
Early 911 struts (3”) loaded w/Bilsteins
914-6 stubs and hubs (different spline than the –4)
914-6 rear calipers

Did you also get the 911 a-arms?
The 914-6 stuff is pretty rare and quite costly, no?

Thanks for the clarification.
Ed

[mike mueller]

Correct, the "M" is the 3" spaceing struts/caliper

When I did my 5 bolt conversion last year, I paid 250 for 911 struts (with new rotors and rebuilt calipers)

For the rear, I paid about 150 for redrilled hubs and studs. For the rotor in the rear, I just redrilled that myself since it does not have to be perfect since the studs locate the rotor.

Average price for the front struts is in the 250 to 300 range for the pair...

Before installing them, it's a good idea to replace the rotors, and rebuild the calipers and install new wheel bearings. The price starts to add up pretty darn fast.

[John2kx]

Rich Johnsons car and email address can be had here. http://home3.inet.tele.dk/box164/html/rich.html

I'll try and answer all your questions as best I can. Before I get started, I don't claim to be a expert by any means with the 914 and one of the reasons I paid Rich to provide me with a complete package.

I decided to go the 911 M strut/caliper (3" caliper bolt spacing) route for front loaded with Bilsteins.

My rears are using stock splined stub axles but the heavy duty pieces and 914 calipers with spacers. (see pic) I'm not 100% sure if the calipers are in fact 914 units or 914-6. I do know they came off of Richard Fishers V8 car since he's upgrading to larger units.

Since I wanted to retain my stock front sway bar and was not interested in changing out the whole front end for a 911 unit, I chose to use my stock a-arms.

This is my first 914 and there are no experts in my area. I choose to pay to have the parts prepped for assembly to avoid mistakes and hassle. There is no doubt it could be done cheaper but felt the money spent to have it done and assembled will help me down the road. The choices in brakes, front end parts, stub axles, caliper sizes, bolt spacing, rotor diameters etc. really confused me at first. The more I read, the more I thought I had it down but still felt like there was some portion of the conversion left unanswered. Now that I have it all laid out in front of me, it has become really clear. You guys that get to hang out with folks like Brad should feel special. All that knowledge you learn for free is not available in my area.

I'll attach pics of what I received from Rich. I'm really impressed with his workmanship. It's hard to believe most of these parts are about 30 years old. He did media blast them. Some parts were powder coated while others were painted. He is also providing polished Fuchs 6 and 7 X 16's just like the ones on his yellow 914-6. Since there are so many different ways to buy a similar conversion, I won't say exactly what it cost to save Rich headaches down the road, but I will say that all the parts mentioned above can be provided by a professional for between $2000-$3000.

Attached pic is of front stut as removed from crate, ready to install. I'll have to attach my pics one at a time.

John

[John2kx]

Stock strut on left, refurbished 5 lug on right. Note difference in Bilstein shaft size.

[John2kx]

heavy duty rear hub

[John2kx]

Freshly rebuilt rear caliper on left vs stock 914-4 caliper. Note wider spacing for vented rotors.

[John2kx]

another view of rear brakes

[John2kx]

New rear rotors vs. stock

[John2kx]

Front caliper.....rebuilt, media blasted and repainted.

[Brad Roberts]

Interesting. I wonder why Rich is having Wes redrill the the 911 vented rotor ??

Sooo.. your the one that was asking Rich for the early hubs... he was on my case to get him some cores.... ha ha.

B

[John2kx]

Things were going to good this morning as I started the 5 lug instllation. Rear bearings were placed in freezer last night and went in without incident. While letting those get back to room temperature, started with the front M strut install. It slid onto the new balljoint perfectly, installed wedge pin and secured. Installed new s/s brake lines (they are different on one end for the M strut compared to the stock 914).

After a short back, I went to shop to admire my work. Arrrrggggg, installed right side strut on left side. Thought that getting that new wedge pin out was gonna be a pain but no problem. Installed the right strut and began putting things together. Thought I had all the differences between 911 and 914 struts figured out. Forgot one........the dust shields are not the same. Waiting on a call right now to see if these can be rocket mailed by tomorrow so I can continue this project.

I'll post a few pics of what has been done so far.

Had a hard time finding 3" O.D. pipe in my area....in fact could not find a single piece. It dawned on me that the outer race from the original bearing could be used to install new piece. I removed dust shield and first set of bearings and used a 3# hammer to tap bearing in without damage.

John

[John2kx]

New bearings in place as well as bearing retainers. My original bearing retainers were both split down the middle???????

[John2kx]

Different pieces needed for 911 M struts for securing brake lines. Note: brake line fitting is different where it attaches to strut. Top pieces are for stock 914 struts......bottom pieces attach to M struts.