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SHO V6 Conversion

I have an opportunity to buy a 3.2 SHO V6 and am considering putting it in my 914. I have a 915 tranny and have found out the Kennedy Engineering makes an adapter for it. Has anyone done this conversion? I believe the SHO engine is transverse mounted - is this a problem?

Ultimately I would love to throw a 3.2 or 3.6 Porsche flat 6 in but at this time the cost is just too much. My 914 will primarily be a track car (autocross and road course). I had considered V8 options but now think that maybe the SHO is the way to go. I have been told they are reliable and that the rev limiter can be removed and that 10,000 rpm is safely in reach and that power is nice and linear. Any comments?
Old 12-01-2002, 12:00 AM
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IMHO, don't put a V-6 in a 914. If you are on a tight buget, simply put in a 2.0 - 2.4 motor. These motor can be bought in good shape in the $800 - $2000 range. Then when you are ready to go 3.2, you are half way there. Also, you can use your 901 gear box and shifter.

A V-6 conversion is not as cheap as one would think.

Another point, the shifter for a 915 is like $1000 plus the special clutch package, flywheel etc.
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Old 12-01-2002, 03:54 AM
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The V6 SHO engine always intrigued me, much more than any SBC conversion. Jim's right, it won't be cheap, but I disagree that the 2.0-2.4 porsche six is a valid alternative.

From a quick search....
_________________________________________________
The original 220 HP, 24 valve, double overhead cam V6 engine, designed and built by Yamaha, powered all 89-95 models. This engine, unlike most of the DOHC, 24 valve engines found in other makes, is a 'racing engine' that was made streetable. The others, are everyday street engines that were 'hopped-up' for the auto makers sporty performance cars.
I've read that this engine made 300 horses when delivered to Ford but guess what? Ford decided it was too much power for the drivetrain and the warranty problems would be numerous so they detuned it to 220. How did they do this, you ask? Amongst other modifications, Ford reground the original camshafts, probably programmed the computer for 'milder' and smoother all-around operation and if you look under the car, you'll see what they did to the exhaust system; they practically blocked it off! I've also read that Ford did not want a four door family sedan that could beat the Mustang, their premier GT sports car! (How many of us would die for 300 HP and the hell with the drivetrain and the damn Mustang) The engine was 3 liters for manual transmission models and 3.2 for automatics, which came into existence in 93.
______________________________________________


Not considering the engine, converting to a small porsche six costs much the same as converting to a 3.0 or 3.2. Engine wise a 2.0, 2.2, 2.4 is a very expensive way to get 110-140 hp. (OK, the 2.4S is more, 170 very revvy hp IIRC)

Could you not just use a stock 914 tranny?

Any idea on the weight of the SHO engine?
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Last edited by DDS; 12-01-2002 at 04:59 AM..
Old 12-01-2002, 04:49 AM
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I'd take a look at your local rules for competition before going thru with this.

A couple things I do know about.
SCCA solo II will put you in a Modified class.
Some PCA AX regions will let you run, but for "time only".

PCA road race won't let you run at all.....except DEs.
SCCA .... Open....I forget what they call this class, but it's a catch all for big bangers...like ex-IMSA Prototypes.

For the street, this swap could be kinda neat. AS a race car, it sounds like a lot of work to be uncompetitive.

BTW, I'm a bit skeptical about the 10000 rpm deal......I've been wrong before. It may do it...... once.
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Old 12-01-2002, 05:11 AM
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For what its worth.

The SHO v-6 is a Yamaha design and was cast and built by Mercury Marine.

I'm pretty sure the factory red line was 8000 or so.

There are a hand full of "stock engines" that I think might take 10,000 RPM more than once, thats one of em.
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Old 12-01-2002, 06:03 AM
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I had done some minor investigation into this a couple of years ago.

An SHO fanatic I knew said that the engine can indeed rev to 10,000 rpm, but that it was the accesories that limited the redline in the Taurus. He used a smaller pulley to gear things down. He also told me that the intake runners were tuned for two RPM peaks one at 2000 something and another at 6500 or so. Don't know the system they usedbut I think he said that it was non mechanical and that the runners had two resonant peaks tuned right in.

He was building a GT-40 replica and IIRC had built a sprint car or some such for his kid using these engines, plus several street cars.

Soloracer - Please do it then tell me how!

JP - WRT racing and class rules, other than PCA, do you not run into similar issues campaigning a Porsche six?
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Last edited by DDS; 12-01-2002 at 06:22 AM..
Old 12-01-2002, 06:17 AM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by DDS
I JP - WRT racing and class rules, other than PCA, do you not run into similar issues campaigning a Porsche six? [/QUOTE

Under SCCA, with a 914, one must be careful with engine size.
The SCCA don't like Porsches in general, the 914 in particular, at least at the club level.....never has, prolly never will.

Other than that (as long as you read the rule book), no problem.

That a SHO engine *can be built* to run 10 grand, I have no doubts. That can be done with a SB Chebbie.

The only *normal* production engine (automotive) that I know of
that approaches that limit is the Honda S 2000 motor.......titainium rods and all.
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Old 12-01-2002, 06:40 AM
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Like most everyone said, check the rule books for which orgs. you want to run in. A swap like that in my area (SF Bay Area) would not be allowed to run in PCA events, however, if you just want track time, there are tons of clubs and people that rent out the local tracks and you can run anything you want. No points or tropheys, just track time to have some fun.

Now, back to the swap.....

I've seen this motor put into a Lotus Esprit (mid-engined car) and I think it would be a sweet and very quick swap. I personally like the idea of a small V6 in the 914. If you can do most of the work yourself, it can be done cheaper than the Chevy V8 since with the V8 you need a special harmonic balancer and waterpump.

I've driven a few V8 cars, and while nice, I think the lighter free-reving V6 would be better suited to a small car so that you can still "toss" it around without it being too overpowered.

Stay away from the SHO V8, they are having cam failures.
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Old 12-01-2002, 07:09 AM
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Here is the car I bought:



I been asking questions on Rennlist and other boards for some time now and really appreciate the help.

As far as racing goes, the local road course where I would be racing at would most likely place me in modified regardless of what engine I have because of the all things that have been done to the chassis (911 suspension, etc.) There are no PCA events where I am so I am limited to the WCMA (similar to SCCA) events. Since I am a rookie driver with only 1 season of Solo 1 beneath my belt my intentions at the track are to learn how to drive and have fun. I could care less about what class I get put in. I'm not in it for the trophies or prize money. I've talked with guys about eventually running in the GT series and went through the rule books and found that if I wanted to run in GT2 I would need to add about 500 lbs of lead and keep my displacement to 3.0 litres and under. One guy I spoke with who runs in GTS (a GT Class for cars that don't fit in GT1 - GT5) says that the real competitive class is GT2 with $100,000 machines being entered. He runs a late 1970's Nissan with a turbo 6. He says that even though GTS allows any mods there are not many cars in it and that he is not competitive with the guys in GT2. Since here they run all the GT classes together on the same track you are effectively racing against everyone - the only thing is when the race is over you get scored according to your class. And that sounds like fun to me.

I plan on doing solo events for a few years to get some knowledge and then try the wheel to wheel stuff.


The 915 transmission was rebuilt by Vellios and I believe it has been converted to side shifter already. The car has a Vellios oil tank, front mounted oil cooler and Vellios Porsche 6 bulkhead mounts. The car was being prepped for a Porsche 6 when I got it. I've searched around and 3.2/3.6's are going for $5000 - $7000 US. This would be for a stock 200 to 250 hp engine. To get more power on these engines would cost signifigantly more.

I also considered the 914 4 cylinder engines but like has been mentioned here they run up to $2000 US for little power. The car also has 17" Kinesis wheels (285 rubber in front 315 in rear) and I believe I will need more jam than the 914 4 is capable of to be competitive. I considered a Toyota MR2 Turbo engine but intercooling a turbo car on a 914 would be a problem. A front mount intercooler would have piping a mile long and result in excess turbo lag. A top mount intercooler would not get the airflow it needs.

I looked into V8's but don't like the fact they add weight. Plus I like the idea of a light, high revving 6 over the V8. I've also considered the V6 from the supercharged Pontiac Bonnyville or the V6 from the Buick Grande National. But through it all I find the more I read about it the more I like the SHO V6. I've read the have about 220 hp stock and have seen dyno sheets from supercharged versions making 400 rwhp. It just sounds like an engine with potential. I have also read about the cam problems with the SHO V8 and will definately stay away from them. One last thing is that if I spent all the money putting the Porsche 6 in and then had an engine failure the cost of repairs I believe could break the bank. Whereas if I blow the motor on the SHO I could always find another for under $1000. I have a Haltech E6K engine management system that was going into my current track car (RX7 Turbo) and could be put into the 914 instead if I needed it.

What problems do you guys see with putting a SHO V6 in a 914? How much HP/Torque is the 915 tranny good for? My car has the chassis stiffening kit already.

Thanks!

Last edited by soloracer; 12-01-2002 at 08:08 AM..
Old 12-01-2002, 08:03 AM
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I'm pretty sure that you cannot convert a 915 to a side shifter...the Vellios kit is a new rear housing unit and is still a "tailshifter", someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Can you take a picture of the tranny?

Cool looking car...yes, you'll need some serious power to overcome the wind resistance of the body work and those huge tires.

The biggest problem of doing the SHO conversion is that I don't think anyone else has done it, so you have to figure it out yourself. I would not trust a shop to do it since you'd have to pay thru the nose for thier R&D.

Supercharging the SHO will cost more than a few grand, I wouldn't go that route myself unless you can find a kit at a great deal.

How about an Audi S4 twin turbo?, these can be found on eBay for about 3500 complete.
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Old 12-01-2002, 08:39 AM
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One thing to look into if you do the SHO conversion:

oil pickup in the pan, you might have to modifiy it since the oil will be going a different direction under acceleration due to the motor turned 90 degrees.

See if you can find an owner of a SHOgun or that Lotus I mentioned.
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Old 12-01-2002, 08:42 AM
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RE Sho engine

I bought a 1985 sho from a cardiac surgeon ( in 93) who had every problem he ever encountered repaired at the dealer. He was decompensating over one last problem they wanted 400$ to fix. ( a crack in the plastic radiator overflow tank). He gave it to me for 2000$. It had 67000M.

My wife drove it for four years. It had a wonderful manual and beefy clutch. The boys from the military base would see her breeze by and drool.

That was a beautiful, incredibly smooth reving engine with a grab you by the shirt flat torque cuve. I always wanted to put it into a 914. I think it has perfect characteristics for our car.

I hope you go ahead. I promise if you do, when I blow my 3.2 I will put one in if you suffer through the developement issues and give us the blow by blow.

By the way the wife got a new WRX and went to a DE the first month.

best Mark
Old 12-01-2002, 10:35 AM
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Once again, put what ever motor you want. But, IMHO, a flat six is the way to go. Sure the 2.0 to 2.7 motors may not generate 200+ HP w/o a fair amount of work. If you want an American 6 cly mid engine car, then a Fiero is the way to go. Just my 0.015 worth. Oh, can you tell, I am a bit of a purist
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Old 12-01-2002, 12:36 PM
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Jim, I just wanna make my VW go fast!
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Old 12-01-2002, 12:39 PM
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I was looking at the Mazda V-6 into the 914 1800cc Dohc 4 valve 140 hp $550.00.Steve






http://offroadvw.net/bajawes/linktoV6.htm



http://www.nippon-motors.com/mazda.htm
Old 12-14-2002, 05:31 PM
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Looks very interesting. I didn't know those engines made that kind of power, and an 8000 rpm redline? Incredible.

Will there be problems with the height of the motor in the engine bay?

PD
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Old 12-15-2002, 04:56 AM
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Funny how when you start looking around you get a dose of reality - I'm considering a toyota 4age (as in formula Atlantic) for my lotus. Almost a direct dimensional knockoff of the cosworth BDA, so purists have something to be pleased about, but it also comes with very modern efi and toyota branded motronic engine mgt. 140hp, $300, c/w induction etc... and 200,000mile reliable life, and very little maintenance. Beats the hell out of the (already non-original) Lotus twin cam - I'm looking to sell that to a museum curator.
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Old 12-15-2002, 05:25 AM
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I have a 93 mr.2 turbo with 105k miles on it.
That motor is as close to bullet proof as anything ever built.
A gud choice, me thinks.
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Old 12-15-2002, 05:54 AM
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For the Cooling system my idea was to run four copper tubes down the center (two hot -two cooled) then attach a .25 Alloy plate a foot wide to the tubes so the plate will act as a heat sink.This will be over 500sq inches Of cooling area, as for the Radiator, a 916/Gt Front bumper and air dam with inlet slightly larger. By using the cooling lines under the car as part of the radiator a much smaller radiator can be mounted in front . For idling or stop and go driving a 40,000 Red Dot Heater mounted in the engine bay hooked to a thermo switch. Steve
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Old 12-15-2002, 07:39 AM
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I like your idea for the cooling lines. I had the idea to run it under the rocker panels, with some scoops and louvers cut for air flow.

Is there a way to figure the HP needed to hit redline in top gear in a 914? How would that be done?

PD
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Old 12-15-2002, 04:30 PM
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