Small Claims Court

[joncdeke]

I have been trying to decide whether or not to file a claim in Small Claims Court. The engine in my 914 failed with only 9,000 miles since a $6,000 + rebuild. The problem is that the shop claims that the warranty had already expired about a year earlier. They claim it had a 12 month/12,000 mile warranty, although it wasn't written on the invoice, not that I could find anyway. The engine wasn't driven hard at all but it doesn't look that way and there's really no way to prove otherwise. Have any of you been through this experience? What would you do?


Thanks!


Jon

P.S. The shop refuses to do anything at all!

[Rouser]

You'll have to check to see what the requirements are for the Small Claims Court in your area; a $6K claim might exceed their limit.

You'll have to get your documentation ducks all in a row, and be prepared to secure an attorney; I'm sure the shop will.

[bowlsby]

No attys are allowed in CA small claims court.

Lasty I checked (4-5 years ago) it was a 2500. limit per claim, with a 5000. max limit within a 12 month period. You can make a single 5000 claim, but no other claims are allowed from you within 12 months.

SC court tends to favor the consumer, which you are, but either way you have to substantiate your claim better than the other guy.

[Wayne 962]

Did you have the valve seats replaced? If not, then they probably dropped out. Most good shops refuse to rebuild an engine without replacing the valve seats...

-Wayne

[Jake Raby]

Most engine failures are from an external problem, like lean mixture or over advanced timing....

I sell all my engines proven on the dyno with no warranty......anything can break, no matter if god builds it himself.

Did you give the shop a chance to make it good?

[campbellcj]

Not to say you're at fault, but I think you would have a tough time proving your claim. As Jake hinted, the shop or the court would have no straightforward way to know for sure if the engine had been overreved, run with low oil, radically overheated, mis-timed, or whatever.

Assuming they performed the work you paid them to do, and you "accepted" it by paying the bill and taking the car home, then driving it for 9,000 miles, I figure the court would rule in favor of the shop.

These things are always bummers. Do you know what it would actually cost to fix the damage/failure? That is what you should be seeking in damages, as opposed to the entire cost of the rebuild.

[Zeke]

Did you contact the auto repair division of the Dept of Consumer Affairs? Not that that will do you much good as they are about a year behind. But their findings would support your court case or save you the trouble. BTW, I have been in SBC once and won on a contracting matter. It's a riot.

AND, if anyone ever sues me, I will immediately file a counter suit in superior court. So, watch for that, it's common. 'Cause if you lose, the countersuit almost automatically wins.

[joncdeke]

Thanks to you all!

Here's the answers to at least some of your questions:

Small Claims Court here is limited to $5,000. It would have cost about $3,500 to repair the damages. But I would have been happy if they would have just offered to cover 50%, after all I was able to drive car for 2 years before it quit. Yes, I tried to work it out with them but owner wouldn't even come to the phone when I called. He wouldn't even take the time to look at it. And no I wasn't rude or nasty at all. I believe, and you guys appear to concur that it isn't worth the frustration etc to go court at this time. I think as a legal issue it's just too close to call even if the SCC does somewhat side with the consumer. On the moral side... this shop knows I took very good care of the car and they know it was their responsibility to repair it. But it's very clear that to some people money is much more important that being fair and honest. Hopefully, someday they will discover how very wrong they are.

[COLDBASS]

Jon,

Is this the same shop that told you to come pick up your car as they elected not to work on it? Arrgh, I was PO'd when I read your initial post. What is the deal with "Customer Sat" these days? From what I read, aside from a few (Jake, John
R. and John W. etc), are the concepts of repeat business, customer referrals, and one's reputation, lost in today's society?

Makes me appreciate my situation even more. I think I'll go buy my tuner a case of Cold Bass Ale...

Sorry to hear about your bad luck...

At least you have the opportunity to Build it bigger and better this time. It seems that some of the popular Porsche shops know "Dik" about our Type IVs

[sammyg2]

My advice: take your engine to a reputable builder and have them disassemble it and document everything. the only way you should sue is if the original builder did something negligent and you can prove it. if they put it together wrong and that caused the failure and you can prove it, then sue their butt off. if not, you should probably bite the bullet. JMO

[douglas robbins]

I'm sorry but I don't hear a claim.

Warrantee : I hear no implied or expressed warantee except the 12 mo/12,000 mi. Twelve months have long since past. Warantees do not go forever. This one is gone.

Negligence : I don't hear any proof as to negligence either. A typical negligence claim of this sort would have to prove 4 things. First, that the shop had a duty to build an engine that did not blow up. Likely, a reasonable man would think that the engine should not blow up after 9,000 miles unless its a racing engine or something similar. So you're problably ok there.

Second that the shop breached that duty. The engine blew up, so that is enough to show breach.

Third that the shop caused the engine trouble. As previous posters indicated, proving that the engine blew up because of the shop's bad work and not because of other factors, such as how you drove it or maintained it will not be easy. You might get some kind of obtopsy for the engine showing the destruction was caused by the shop's faulty repair work, but that would probably cost you more than it's worth.

Fourth you have to prove that you've suffered damages, that is, economic harm. That's pretty easy to prove.

So the negligence case will be hard to prove largely because it's hard to prove causation: that the engine blew up because of the shop's work and for no other reason.

Contract : I heard nothing about there being a contract so likely there is no contract claim. But read the back of the receipt. Sometimes there are contract terms written there. But those terms are almost never in the customer's favor.

Sorry, I do not see a great case. A repair shop is not Nordstrom. They will not return everything and anything just for the purposes of good customer service.

I heard Nordstom once even returned a set of used tires.

Douglas

Sadly in this case, Mr. Robbins is absolutly correct. You would have to Prove the warrantee, and that the failure was not of your own making. A Small Claims Court should, in theory, make you prove the motor was defective throught a qualified expert (as in a very expensive engineer).

[mikester]

If you still have the oil in the engine you might be able to have it analyzed.

It's pretty common practive in tractor and rig engines...

They can tell which parts are wearing more than they should by the types and amounts of specific particles suspended in the oil.

I don't know where you could get it done or at what cost, but I do recall reading an article recently in one of my car mags about regular joe's like me and you having it done regularly.

I would love to have mine oil analyzed...wait...no I wouldn't. I don't think I WANT to know what's going on in there...

Actually, I may do a little more research on this for my own benefit. Anyone know anything about it?

[Zeke]

Mike, go here: http://www.aera.org/Techside/engineoilanalyse.htm
I would agree that the more info, the beter the case. Even if that means taking the results of a study like that back to the oringinal builder. With a bunch of documantation, an expert witness and so on, the guy might all of a sudden realize that the customer is getting serious and there's a chance he will win as well as validate a complaint to the auto repair bureau. At that point, knowing the hassle he is about to face and the time it will take to fight it, he may give up and compensate.

Good thought, Mike.